What incentives do NH land owners have?

[John Mercier 36]

There is no writing on the wall... LANDOWNERS decide. If you get landowner permission, you can ride off trail. But that is up to the individual... not the clubs.

The more the landowners hear these statements... the more we question having anything open. You have to respect the people that own the property.

It is why I tell people that complain... buy land. 

 

[WideOpenOrNothin 13]

6 hours ago, John Mercier said:

There is no writing on the wall... LANDOWNERS decide. If you get landowner permission, you can ride off trail. But that is up to the individual... not the clubs.

The more the landowners hear these statements... the more we question having anything open. You have to respect the people that own the property.

It is why I tell people that complain... buy land. 

 

Ok John, wow

Whatever you and the rest of NH’s snowmobiling gods are making your cool aid with has our land owners with the highest level of Snowmobile Derangement Syndrome, SDS level 6!!
 

As the rest of the states, the country to our north, continue to move forward with the sport. Man you are really holding that line until the day it dies. And it’s dying, you ‘God Willing’ could very well outlive it. Shit even Skip will probably be around to see those registration number go to nothing. 
 

I can’t remember once ever hearing you say, “ You know what Adam(for anyone who didn’t know), you know what- the sport is not what it used to be and NH is falling behind” or “the sport has evolved into something much bigger than it ever was and we need to address that.” 
 

Nope it’s, SDS level 6, like everyday is the first time you’ve even heard to a sled going 80mph or that there’s a track longer than 137”

Or

Drinking your morning coffee at the local DnDs with your other SDS old timers talking about how it’s good Riddance all these trouble makers, talking about how you don’t need them. 
 

Yes John, yes- you need the people who ride off trail, you need the people who can go fast.

It is beyond impressive, its just straight cool aid running through your vanes. 
yes John the writing is on the wall, yes John Donald Trump is Your President, yes John the sport is moving on whether you like it or not. 
 

Gotcha though, buy land Or shut up is you answer, because NH will NEVER succumb to the evils of this quosi sport I’m always talking about
 

Edited November 6, 2019 by WideOpenOrNothin

[classicdmax 58]

I’ve been lurking and following this topic since last winter wide open. While it seems to me your points are valid and has created some great banter. However, if you are so passionate about your home state and off trail riding, what have you done to facilitate discussion with landowners to generate interest in off trail riding. I’m sure this hasn’t been your only open forum....

 

btw, I’m 42, from Rhode Island and ride in NH and sometimes with my 10yo son. I dont always observe the speed limit but am always aware of the standing 45 when not posted and for the most part follow the rules as written. I’m also glad there is a limit to follow because I feel free range is not the best idea and having a limit should at the very least keep riders closer to it rather than having a fistful running down every straight. For the most part 40mph is quite enough to have fun in the twistys.

Edited November 6, 2019 by classicdmax

[WideOpenOrNothin 13]

55 minutes ago, classicdmax said:

I’ve been lurking and following this topic since last winter wide open. While it seems to me your (wide open) points are valid and has created some great banter. However, if you are so passionate about your home state and off trail riding, what have you done to facilitate discussion with landowners to generate interest in off trail riding. I’m sure this hasn’t been your only open forum....

 

btw, I’m 42, from Rhode Island and ride in NH and sometimes with my 10yo son. I dont always observe the speed limit but am always aware of the standing 45 when not posted and for the most part follow the rules as written. I’m also glad there is a limit to follow because I feel free range is not the best idea and having a limit should at the very least keep riders closer to it rather than having a fistful running down every straight. For the most part 40mph is quite enough to have fun in the twistys.

I have not gone knocking on any land owners doors or called For a round table. 
Is facilitating it with the landowners on this platform not good enough to get a discussion going amongst the decision makers.

Is there a registration combo I can purchase for say like $250 where it allows me to ride on trails and have my words get through to The NHSA and decision makers?

Do the people interest matter at all or is it up to the powers at be?

its up to the powers at be so the people’s interest don’t matter.

if you think so 35 year old can come in and push weight around on people who have been in charge for ever. I can’t even get a non SDS response on here- what makes you think I’ll get it there?

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by WideOpenOrNothin

[classicdmax 58]

I don’t think your age matters. You seemed to have done some of your homework and have presented yourself fairly well On the topic (outside your last rant). I get the feeling folks around here are more than willing to listen and have taken you seriously enough. But without going straight to the owners doorstep and presenting them with an idea, and facts to back it up it’ll likely never happen. I would suspect that many landowners who allow riding In NH on their property may not be entirely educated in the sport, snow or dirt

i used to be part of the off-road community. It took tremendous efforts to convince landowners to allow us to wheel. Many of their expectations on the sport were vastly inaccurate, it took providing them with facts and even inviting them to join us on a ride, offering up manual labor for cleanups, “donations” and the like. It wasn’t always a home run

[PolarisCobra 132]

Sorry if I mis-interpreted some of your posts over the past months. My impression is that you want to be able to do some off trail riding (led me to the assumption that you already do some, maybe I was incorrect about that), think that the speed limit is too low (others agree, but don't seem to see a clear path to changing it), and that the registration increase will drive many riders to other states, notably Maine. 

This is because of lower registration and housing costs, lack of speed limits, and off trail opportunities in Maine. 

I will be the first to say that I don't understand all the ins and outs of the things that go into changing any of this. From where I live in Mass, it's difficult to get more involved, although I do understand that isn't a great excuse. For me, given that I cannot get more involved in the inner workings of things, I'm willing to accept what is available. 

I do understand that Maine is fundamentally different than NH. Much more space, the land is more open, much more of it is logging or farms, or just forest when there is no snow on the ground. Therefore, winter use permissions are different. There are probably other laws that are different that I know I don't fully understand. The laws, customs and rules have evolved differently for a number of reasons, and I don't think its likely that they will converge any time soon. 

I think that part of the housing price difference has to do with lower economic opportunists in Maine, I have relatives there who struggle to find work. Some towns are really struggling there compared to years past for sure. That issue exists in NH as well, but I believe to a lesser extent. When there is no work, housing prices are lower (I think you can buy an abandoned house in the area around Detroit for nearly nothing these days.) Not a big problem if you are buying a vacation home, and don't plan to work there. But - homes out of the towns, with trail access and more space tend to be somewhat more expensive, if they have comparable square footage and amenities.

 

Bottom line, if there is no concerted effort in NH, by people who want to do some off trail riding, to open up some areas, nothing will change. The people and clubs maintaining trails today don't seem to have much incentive to do the work to create off trail areas, and when people go off trail, causing trouble between the landowners and club, you can't really blame them for being frustrated with people going off trail, and getting land closed off. 

As for speed limits, if no one steps up with a strong argument and lobbies the NHSA, BOT, and whoever else in in the decision paths to get support for changing the rules, they are not going to change.

I keep reading that younger people generally are not getting involved with clubs. (Not meaning you specifically, I clearly don't know what your involvement is.) Maybe its a generational thing, maybe they don't feel welcome, there are probably lots of reasons. What I am pretty sure of is that people posting on Facebook (or wherever) (again, not pointing at you specifically) that they will ride where they want, don't care about the rules, and have no intention of getting involved isn't going to help get anything changed.  

[rneal55555 12]

You may be interested to know that the NHSA currently has a committee that is exploring ways to accommodate Backwoods/Off Trail riding and the things that go into it. Roger Wright is is the Chair.  We had a presentation from a group of backwoods riders last year at a BOD meeting. I suspect they will be able at some future time to get some areas to accommodate so amount of it, but we as a state are more constrained be geography and the nature of our land ownership than by any supposed attitude against it.

I will tell you that the attitude of any given club is driven and governed by the attitudes of their landowners rather than the opinions of the Officers and members.  In other words we adapt to what the landowner wants ITS THEIR LAND either that or lose the trails and with out the trails snowmobiling in New hampshire would cease to exist for just about everybody young, old, slow or fast it wouldn't really matter.

[John Mercier 36]

8 hours ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

Ok John, wow

Whatever you and the rest of NH’s snowmobiling gods are making your cool aid with has our land owners with the highest level of Snowmobile Derangement Syndrome, SDS level 6!!
 

As the rest of the states, the country to our north, continue to move forward with the sport. Man you are really holding that line until the day it dies. And it’s dying, you ‘God Willing’ could very well outlive it. Shit even Skip will probably be around to see those registration number go to nothing. 
 

I can’t remember once ever hearing you say, “ You know what Adam(for anyone who didn’t know), you know what- the sport is not what it used to be and NH is falling behind” or “the sport has evolved into something much bigger than it ever was and we need to address that.” 
 

Nope it’s, SDS level 6, like everyday is the first time you’ve even heard to a sled going 80mph or that there’s a track longer than 137”

Or

Drinking your morning coffee at the local DnDs with your other SDS old timers talking about how it’s good Riddance all these trouble makers, talking about how you don’t need them. 
 

Yes John, yes- you need the people who ride off trail, you need the people who can go fast.

It is beyond impressive, its just straight cool aid running through your vanes. 
yes John the writing is on the wall, yes John Donald Trump is Your President, yes John the sport is moving on whether you like it or not. 
 

Gotcha though, buy land Or shut up is you answer, because NH will NEVER succumb to the evils of this quosi sport I’m always talking about
 

Actually, I don't. I do not get paid to have my land opened to access. When you are the landowner... you get to determine whether it is of value to you or not. So buy land.

 

[WideOpenOrNothin 13]

1 hour ago, John Mercier said:

Actually, I don't. I do not get paid to have my land opened to access. When you are the landowner... you get to determine whether it is of value to you or not. So buy land.

 

You are........ and I thought you were just being a contrarian, silly me. 
 

Thank you for all your great access over the years. Allow me to apologize to you for all the young punks who must have done something of poor taste on your property or to you to allow all the great you’ve done to be consumed by the hate for what snowmobiling has become. 

And as the landlord king you’ve done an outstanding job to help drive snowmobiling out of NH. 
You stated yesterday, even the back and forth I give you- you feel is grounds to close your land. Or makes you feel like you want to. 
 

That’ll show all the millennials who aren’t even riding on my land anyways because they’re all riding in maine. 

close you land, keep it open- sooner or later all the old timers will be dead and nobody will care about your trail.

Because they’ll all be in Maine.

Ill make sure to stay away from your property- don’t worry

 

[John Mercier 36]

I am not consumed by hate... and no one has damaged my property.

I am explaining that to landowners the survival of snowmobiling is of no real consequence.

You keep thinking that it does mean something to them... and it simply doesn't.

We've already explained... there are no landowner incentives. The only landowners with incentive are leasing their property to the BoT.

 

[snorander 216]

Found this article recently...  https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/off-trail-snowmobile-trespassing-the-devil-made-me-do-it/

"Those who cry they have nowhere to ride should be reminded that buying a snowmobile with a deep lug track was a voluntary purchase. You don’t go buy a high powered rifle to go deer hunting if they only allow slug hunting in your local area. Nor do you use the rifle to go duck hunting. If you want to use that new rifle you’d better find where it is legal to do so.

The notion that it is an obligation of the club volunteers to accommodate riders who want to go off trail and break laws is absurd. If these riders want a different experience and opportunity, they can take their machines to locations where that kind of riding is legal and acceptable, or they can roll up their sleeves and do the work to create such opportunities – just like everyone else has. Not all riding areas will be able to have legal off-trail opportunities. Just like your rifle, you can’t use it everywhere hunting is legal."