WideOpenOrNothin

# of properties to buy in NH compared to ME

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So my wife and I were talking tonight about our plans to buy a cabin/northern “home” in the next 3-5 years. 
So of course we look in NH and we look in Maine. Now wouldn’t you know it, I know most of you do. With NH limited housing available in sled/atv country. Minus hunting cabins, $125,000+ range for an out of date, rustic setup. 

Sure there’s other places in NH, limited and fairly high priced. The days of the $20k hunting cabin for sale in NH are gone. Sure you can find one here and there for $35-50k(hunting cabin) in the burg. The cabin on, 134-maybe, with the solar panel on the front. That was up for a few years.
This isn’t 1980 anymore though and most people aren’t interested in a hunting cabin(for their vacation home)you need to haul everything in and out of every time. 
 

Meanwhile I pop into a few of Maine’s MANY MANY towns and I can find full houses at $20k, I can find a non-fixer for $130k. I can find multi families that you can group purchase with family for under $150k and need little to no work. 
foreclosures and houses everywhere in Maine.
 

So we have MA people leaving NH in droves for the winter. Instead of taking a left on 16 they go straight on 95. Instead of taking 93 to the burg- they take it to rangley. 
 
By 2021 we’ll easily be able to buy a House, yes House, for $50k in Maine, with trails for endless miles. No speed limit, less traffic- is most likely, and there’s plenty of night life in these towns that rival burg. All you need is a local pub. 
 

NH sledding has been in serious trouble, it might be on its last leg with no properties affordable in NH and NH Deciding to TAX their few loyal sledders left to them to make up for their lack of profit. The forecast is ugly for NH snowmobiling economy. 
 

Whats NH going to do when you 60-70 year old can’t ride anymore- who’s going to be left??  
 

Edited by WideOpenOrNothin

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NH doesn't specifically lay taxation on the snowmobile community. 

The cost of housing is highly dependent on demand. Not really something the State can control.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, John Mercier said:

NH doesn't specifically lay taxation on the snowmobile community. 

The cost of housing is highly dependent on demand. Not really something the State can control.

 

 

John, work with me here- read what I’m trying to say, not just my literal words. You always go by my literal wording and not what I’m conveying.

I’m referring the the hike(s) in registration fees over few years as the tax. That’s why I referenced by ‘2021’ we’ll be lookin to buy a northern vacation home. 
You can say cost of maintenance has gone up- I believe it. But having more  Registrations would help off set that cost. Not charging even more to the people you have left riding in your state. You’re going to drive even more people out of NH sledding and into Maine. 
 

Obviously the state doesn’t have control of the housing  market- this isn’t California, we are a free state-Thank God! 
What I’m saying is Maine has an extremely CHEAP real estate market, with Plenty to choose from across the state. 
So
NH real estate- high cost, low availability/high demand

ME real estate- low cost, extremely high availability

When we’re ready to buy in a few years, it’s going to be in Maine and my 5 person family(3 registration now, 4 by 202, and my youngest is 2 so she has a bit), we are taking our sledding to Maine and not coming back. 
 

NH has made it very clear they love their way of what snowmobiling should be and it doesn’t mix with what the younger Americans want to do 

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3 hours ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

 

John, work with me here- read what I’m trying to say, not just my literal words. You always go by my literal wording and not what I’m conveying.

I’m referring the the hike(s) in registration fees over few years as the tax. That’s why I referenced by ‘2021’ we’ll be lookin to buy a northern vacation home. 
You can say cost of maintenance has gone up- I believe it. But having more  Registrations would help off set that cost. Not charging even more to the people you have left riding in your state. You’re going to drive even more people out of NH sledding and into Maine. 
 

Obviously the state doesn’t have control of the housing  market- this isn’t California, we are a free state-Thank God! 
What I’m saying is Maine has an extremely CHEAP real estate market, with Plenty to choose from across the state. 
So
NH real estate- high cost, low availability/high demand

ME real estate- low cost, extremely high availability

When we’re ready to buy in a few years, it’s going to be in Maine and my 5 person family(3 registration now, 4 by 202, and my youngest is 2 so she has a bit), we are taking our sledding to Maine and not coming back. 
 

NH has made it very clear they love their way of what snowmobiling should be and it doesn’t mix with what the younger Americans want to do 

Why beat around the bush just come out and say you don't like the increase!

(doesn’t mix with what the younger Americans want to do)

Most not all young Americans are to lazy and cheap to do anything that mommy and daddy won't pay for!

Enjoy Maine before they go up.

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10 minutes ago, dirt dummy said:

Why beat around the bush just come out and say you don't like the increase!

(doesn’t mix with what the younger Americans want to do)

Most not all young Americans are to lazy and cheap to do anything that mommy and daddy

Who’s beating around the bush DD. I’ve been straight up vocal about the increase. 
I’ve been straight up vocal about other issues as well. Everyone on sledNH knows very well what I think.
Most Americans are not lazy, cheap, and if they’re that dependent on Mommy and Daddy than Mommy and Daddy did a shit job raising productive people for our country. But I digress on that subject(you can find my opinion on that subject in other posts if you want to look back)

Yes people under 50 are leaving NH sledding every year to go to Maine where they don’t have to deal with NH’s BS.  

Registration fees

NH residential:$97

Me residential:$46

NH nonresidential:$116

ME nonresidential:$100

ME has Not voted to raise their fees 

NH has voted to raise them not just once but twice..

2020: NH resident:$26 increase to $122, nonresident to $142

2021: NH resident: $21 increase $143, nonresident:$11 $153

 

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It's not surprising that there's plenty of available housing at low prices in northern Maine. That happens when the population is decreasing. Only the southern Maine counties have seen population growth. Northern Maine counties have very low average household income, just as Coos County has lower income than southern NH. It may well be that northern Maine offers a better value for OHRV/sled owners to purchase vacation property. It's that old supply vs demand thing at work. Many people do not want to drive to northern Maine for recreation, especially winter recreation.

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30 minutes ago, jhwentworth said:

It's not surprising that there's plenty of available housing at low prices in northern Maine. That happens when the population is decreasing. Only the southern Maine counties have seen population growth. Northern Maine counties have very low average household income, just as Coos County has lower income than southern NH. It may well be that northern Maine offers a better value for OHRV/sled owners to purchase vacation property. It's that old supply vs demand thing at work. Many people do not want to drive to northern Maine for recreation, especially winter recreation.

So do they not want to drive to Coos County either, or northern Carrol, because that’s not what I see?

You don’t need to go to The County in Maine to get great northern ME riding. Anything north of Fryeburg and your Good To Go. 

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You’ve made your point.
Ad nauseum.
You’re going to Maine.

Send us a digital postcard when you settle in (we don’t need to read six threads and twenty posts from you bitching about the price of stamps)...

:)

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Skip said:

You’ve made your point.
Ad nauseum.
You’re going to Maine.

Send us a digital postcard when you settle in (we don’t need to read six threads and twenty posts from you bitching about the price of stamps)...

:)

 

 

 

Are you even on a ‘snow machine’ anymore young fella... 

I mean seriously, what a joke if you consider a younger generations take on why NH can’t keep riders younger than the model T on skis generation. 
I’m telling you why I’m the only member in their 30’s on this site. Because everyone else I know has left NH and it’s sad. 

Edited by WideOpenOrNothin

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4 hours ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

So do they not want to drive to Coos County either, or northern Carrol, because that’s not what I see?

You don’t need to go to The County in Maine to get great northern ME riding. Anything north of Fryeburg and your Good To Go. 

Two points:

Point 1 - I live in southern NH and we own a house on 4 acres in Twin Mountain, paid $160K.  The house is old and has shitty bones but it has a huge 9 year new 28x54 garage and it's on the trails and close to skiing and hiking.  Eventually, I'd like to knock the house down and building a new one.  My biggest issue is real estate taxes.  My southern NH house is 11K a year and my TM house is closing in on $3500 a year.  If we build a new house and get reassessed, I fear the taxes will double and Twin hasn't built a mega mansion school yet.  The real estate taxes suck for owning 2nd homes in NH.

Point 2 - Location - I'm 1 hour and 40 minutes door to door and 99% of the time I'm not in traffic going up 93.  I've done tons of 1 nighters up there as it's close and easy.  Where can you buy in Maine for 2 hours or less with reliable snow and good trails?  95 is a disaster with weekend traffic and stop and pay tolls. Unless you don't mind long rides in the car, I don't see how Maine makes sense for people living in Mass/NH if you need to be home M-F most of the time.

If I had to do it again, I'd look for something in Vermont at 2 hours at the bottom of the NEK.  I don't care about sales/income taxes for a 2nd home and the real estate taxes won't be as nuts as NH.  Plus, the snowmobiling is the best around in a 2 hour drive from the MA/NH border areas. 

P.S. I see tons of trailers in the winter going through Twin, up Route 3 to wherever or riding locally.  There are lots of people around.

P.P.S I'm 42.

Edited by TTA89

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11 hours ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

 

John, work with me here- read what I’m trying to say, not just my literal words. You always go by my literal wording and not what I’m conveying.

I’m referring the the hike(s) in registration fees over few years as the tax. That’s why I referenced by ‘2021’ we’ll be lookin to buy a northern vacation home. 
You can say cost of maintenance has gone up- I believe it. But having more  Registrations would help off set that cost. Not charging even more to the people you have left riding in your state. You’re going to drive even more people out of NH sledding and into Maine. 
 

Obviously the state doesn’t have control of the housing  market- this isn’t California, we are a free state-Thank God! 
What I’m saying is Maine has an extremely CHEAP real estate market, with Plenty to choose from across the state. 
So
NH real estate- high cost, low availability/high demand

ME real estate- low cost, extremely high availability

When we’re ready to buy in a few years, it’s going to be in Maine and my 5 person family(3 registration now, 4 by 202, and my youngest is 2 so she has a bit), we are taking our sledding to Maine and not coming back. 
 

NH has made it very clear they love their way of what snowmobiling should be and it doesn’t mix with what the younger Americans want to do 

Registration is a fee, not a tax.

Other than the current $13 to F&G and $1 to SAR for a resident registration... all other monies including gas taxes go into the trail system.

You would need to convince the NHSA and the local clubs that taking less money in GIA, which would lower registration fees, would create enough registration growth to more than cover the costs of operations.

Of course, it will not lower demand on real estate.

 

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7 hours ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

Who’s beating around the bush DD. I’ve been straight up vocal about the increase. 
I’ve been straight up vocal about other issues as well. Everyone on sledNH knows very well what I think.
Most Americans are not lazy, cheap, and if they’re that dependent on Mommy and Daddy than Mommy and Daddy did a shit job raising productive people for our country. But I digress on that subject(you can find my opinion on that subject in other posts if you want to look back)

Yes people under 50 are leaving NH sledding every year to go to Maine where they don’t have to deal with NH’s BS.  

Registration fees

NH residential:$97

Me residential:$46

NH nonresidential:$116

ME nonresidential:$100

ME has Not voted to raise their fees 

NH has voted to raise them not just once but twice..

2020: NH resident:$26 increase to $122, nonresident to $142

2021: NH resident: $21 increase $143, nonresident:$11 $153

 

The two step increase is also due to the hope that the advisory committee will find a way to subsidize snowmobiling.

The increase in the number of residents over the age of 50... more likely due to NH's standing in best places to retire.

As those rankings change... it may slow the influx. I've been alive long enough to see it surge and wane. 

 

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44 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

Two points:

Point 1 - I live in southern NH and we own a house on 4 acres in Twin Mountain, paid $160K.  The house is old and has shitty bones but it has a huge 9 year new 28x54 garage and it's on the trails and close to skiing and hiking.  Eventually, I'd like to knock the house down and building a new one.  My biggest issue is real estate taxes.  My southern NH house is 11K a year and my TM house is closing in on $3500 a year.  If we build a new house and get reassessed, I fear the taxes will double and Twin hasn't built a mega mansion school yet.  The real estate taxes suck for owning 2nd homes in NH.

Point 2 - Location - I'm 1 hour and 40 minutes door to door and 99% of the time I'm not in traffic going up 93.  I've done tons of 1 nighters up there as it's close and easy.  Where can you buy in Maine for 2 hours or less with reliable snow and good trails?  95 is a disaster with weekend traffic and stop and pay tolls. Unless you don't mind long rides in the car, I don't see how Maine makes sense for people living in Mass/NH if you need to be home M-F most of the time.

If I had to do it again, I'd look for something in Vermont at 2 hours at the bottom of the NEK.  I don't care about sales/income taxes for a 2nd home and the real estate taxes won't be as nuts as NH.  Plus, the snowmobiling is the best around in a 2 hour drive from the MA/NH border areas. 

P.S. I see tons of trailers in the winter going through Twin, up Route 3 to wherever or riding locally.  There are lots of people around.

P.P.S I'm 42.

Some good perspective in those points. 
 

You said you wouldn’t have bought your second home in NH but in VT. 

Is it the NH Property taxes That would make you do that or does it have anything do with NH’s sledding?

i think we can both agree that vacation traffic on 95&93 is much different between summer and winter tourism. 

Id contest that everyday(Commuter) 93 traffic from mass to Manch and then through concord is far worse than 95 commuter traffic(besides Portland). 

I can see why ME might be out of your range but for me I could be in Mexico ME, buy a small fixer upper or a foreclosure for less than $50K. It’s a 2 hour ride and I’m well into Maine. Rumford next door has a night life. 
 

To your MA people traveling. I only know one family from MA that still is in Anh and that’s because they own a dozen properties in the Burg and are much older. 
 

the almost 2 dozen people I know around my age all go to Maine; rangley, eustis, the forks. Some live around Danvers and go up 95. Some live around Lowell and go right passed Errol up 16 to Rangley. I used to cabin in wentworth location and would watch trailers and sled decks blow through into ME

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45 minutes ago, John Mercier said:

Registration is a fee, not a tax.

Other than the current $13 to F&G and $1 to SAR for a resident registration... all other monies including gas taxes go into the trail system.

You would need to convince the NHSA and the local clubs that taking less money in GIA, which would lower registration fees, would create enough registration growth to more than cover the costs of operations.

Of course, it will not lower demand on real estate.

 

But will it lower the interest in the supply?

I have truly have no problem paying $120 a sled if I didn’t have to worry about speeding tickets for 4-7 miles over the speed limit. 
 

if any part of the increase is do to NH decline in registrations and not all on Increase cost of maintenance than it is absolutely a tax in disguise 

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If it did... prices would fall and maybe come more into line with Maine. 

 

The cost of maintenance must be paid based on the amount taken in... so less registrations means the maintenance cost gets divided by a fewer number of users.

For it to be a tax... that would need to be a transfer to other usage. 

We may have some of that... hard to tell. The last time it was confirmed was OHRV registrations going to snowmobile trail maintenance... and that was about fifteen years ago.

 

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11 minutes ago, 800R Gade X said:

What about taxes? Taxes are higher in Maine

He is thinking only about it from a 2nd home (camp) perspective. 

Since that would only be property taxes - as far as we can tell - they would be easily comparable.

Retiring there would be a whole different story.

 

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By the way... you aren't likely to get a speeding ticket only going over the limit 4-7 mph. It could happen according to the statute... but real world results don't seem to suggest such a tight enforcement.

It is like impounding... they avoid it whenever possible.

 

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1 hour ago, WideOpenOrNothin said:

 

I can see why ME might be out of your range but for me I could be in Mexico ME, buy a small fixer upper or a foreclosure for less than $50K. It’s a 2 hour ride and I’m well into Maine. Rumford next door has a night life. 
 

To your MA people traveling. I only know one family from MA that still is in Anh and that’s because they own a dozen properties in the Burg and are much older. 
 

the almost 2 dozen people I know around my age all go to Maine; rangley, eustis, the forks. Some live around Danvers and go up 95. Some live around Lowell and go right passed Errol up 16 to Rangley. I used to cabin in wentworth location and would watch trailers and sled decks blow through into ME

Where do you live now that Mexico is a 2 hour ride?  Can you show me a 50k-100k house you're talking about in Maine? That seems pretty cheap....  You can always ride back towards the Burg for overnights at the Tall Timber if you bought a place in Maine.  I get NH, VT, and ME each year, we ride all over the place.  :)

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14 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

Where do you live now that Mexico is a 2 hour ride?  Can you show me a 50k-100k house you're talking about in Maine? That seems pretty cheap....  You can always ride back towards the Burg for overnights at the Tall Timber if you bought a place in Maine.  I get NH, VT, and ME each year, we ride all over the place.  :)

So here’s just a fast search in Mexico, not even foreclosures. The last house pic is of real nice looking multi families that would be great group buys with family or close friends! The last one is a quick apple map of time from my place to Mexico so you can knock off a good half hour of that time proposed 

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