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How high could sled registration go?

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35 minutes ago, RK-SXViper said:

Because there are too many hands in the cookie jar. Snowmobiling in NH is a self funded sport unlike Maine and VT which have state control over the sport. NH clubs are non profits and can have no connection to a state agency (F&G) so there will never be a one stop website to register your sled. Like Jeff mentioned if you register as a non club member and pay the extra $30 per sled, all of that $30 will go into GIA for all clubs to use. So if you really want to help the sport register as a non club member then go and make a donation to your local club

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Here are some numbers that I had posted before. When I compared return on investment into GIA program using new proposed increase vs. Doing away with registration discount or leave everything alone i figured a percent return factor. The best for the club, the consumer, and the trails is by far just everyone choosing to not buy discount and then the $30.00 goes directly into Trails program and the club gets funding.

Doing away with and proposing increases both require Lobbyist and full legislative law change.

Existing Resident with no discount = 82.02% goes into GIA

Proposed increase = 54.12% into GIA.

Posted July 26

New suggested registration rate proposed by NHSA Committee. $120.00 per sled for residents after discount

 

 

 

This means $32.81 going to F&G

 

This means $1.00 goes to F&G Search and Rescue

 

This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

 

$34.18 is amount of additional funds to be used by Trails Bureau for trail grooming and summer maintenance.

 

This equals a total $81.18 per new registration cost going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails. No more grooming equipment or groomer maintenance (Refurbs) Clubs will get an increase in grooming hours actually groomed. Low snow means no money for club to pay cost of owning groomer

 

Cost increase per registration to resident $54.00 per sled if joining club and buying discount from NHSA at an average cost of $20.00 for club and $10.00 NHSA to buy discount.

 

Cost for discount by sled using average price club membership

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $150.00

 

2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $135.00

 

3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $130.00

 

4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $127.50

 

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Current registration rate $66.00 for resident with discount

 

This equals $47.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails

 

This equals $13.00 going to F&G

 

This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue.

 

This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $96.00

 

2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $81.00

 

3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $76.00

 

4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $73.50

 

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Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

 

This equals $77.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails

 

This equals $13.00 going to F&G

 

This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue.

 

This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

 

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Percentage of cost of registration going to GIA and Trails Program

 

 

 

New proposed Registration

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register.

 

$81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $135.00 per sled to register.

 

$81.18 Trails Program= 60.13 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $130.00 per sled to register.

 

$81.18 Trails Program=62.44 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $127.50 per sled to register.

 

$81.18 Trails Program=63.67 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

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Current registration with discount

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register.

 

$47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $81.00 per sled to register.

 

$47.00 Trails Program= 58.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $76.00 per sled to register.

 

$47.00 Trails Program=61.84 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $73.50 per sled to register.

 

$47.00 Trails Program=63.94 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

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Current registration no discount

 

Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

 

$77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

We all know more funding is needed for the trails program. How do you do that without raising registration cost to the point of pushing people to other states, out of the sport, or just not registering and run illegally.

 

To me, based on above info, the most return for a resident registering a sled as far as investing in Trails is as follows:

 

Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

 

$77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

Current registration with discount

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register.

 

$47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

New proposed Registration

 

1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register.

 

$81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

 

I think the discounted registration program has run its course. Time to remove it from the RSA. Clubs that do a good job on it’s trails and membership programs will still get people to join.

 

Clubs that don’t will have problems.

 

I think paying $96.00 per sled for resident resulting in $77.00 into GIA and trails program @ 80.02 % return into program is much better than $150.00 per sled with discount for resident resulting in $81.18 into GIA and trails program @ 54.12 % return into GIA and Trails Program.

 

As residents what do you think? It is a $54.00 resident registration increase per sled.

No more groomer equipment support from GIA for clubs.

Edited by Freedom Rider

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13 minutes ago, Freedom Rider said:

All of the following numbers come from the NHF&G Law Enforcement Report for NHSA Meeting – May 19, 2018.
•    The five-year snowmobile registration average is 41,160
•    35% Nonresidents and 65% Residents
•    86% were club members that used the $30 discount.

1)    41,160 (average member registrations) x 65% (NH residents) = 26,754 (Average yearly NH resident registrations) 
2)    26,754 x 86% (Discount use) = 23,008 (Average Yearly Registrations that used the discount)
3)    23,008 x $30 (Money that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid) = $690,240 (Average Yearly Income that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid)
4)    $690,240 x 14 years (Time since the discounted was enacted) = $9,663,360

Thanks, I'm still trying to understand the cost structure.  If you register 1 sled the cost is basically a wash right?  27 bucks to join a club through NHSA and then 30 bucks off your reg.  I guess if you register multiple sleds it starts to make sense since you spend the 27 bucks and get 30 bucks off each reg.

So why are clubs even supporting this if they get less money if members join their specific club rather than paying the non-discounted fee and money going into the GIA?  I suppose they can hope that people will donate extra to the club when they sign up?  Otherwise... what's the point?

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8 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

I don't know if it's because I donate extra but I got an email from the club President a day after I renewed through NHSA thanking me for my donation. So either it's coincidence or he got a notification...I just looked back through my email history and he contacted me the last few years after I signed up as well.  Not that it matters, but I get your point.

He is more than likely one who keeps a separate spreadsheet of membership.When compared to report that system generates doesn't jive he looks up to see what is off. Example his club spreadsheet may say they sold 75 memberships directly (non POS Portal) and the combined NHSA Portal Spreadsheet may say 84 including club sold direct and 9 sold through NHSA POS Portal. If your club doesn't do the extra work in running a comparison you could have been out of luck. The system was pushed through to reduce labor by volunteers yet it created much more.To join club and get voucher through club the membership must recieve application. Enter all info into club Portal. Print voucher ID number. Send to the club. It also ended the supporting businesses such as dealers and repair shops who are registration agents from doing one stop shopping. Which is the point you are looking to be made.

 

POS is Point of Sale system that you used.

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On 10/30/2018 at 0:27 AM, Freedom Rider said:

Quite obvious that you don't ride in the south or even realize what goes on there with the clubs who bust their asses to keep trails open for people who wish to ride their sleds instead of trucks.

There are no $300,000.00 groomers down here. I do not think there are any in the whole state. The newest groomers that I know of are the Mid 2000 vintage groomers that SNHSS have for full size and 2009 ASV Scout the NCP has. Kingston runs a nice older model Pistonbully. Derry runs an older BR, and Newfields runs a mid 90's Tucker. Nothing new just well cared for. NCP runs a 1973 Thiokol. The last GIA funding for a groomer purchase in Rockingham County was in 2009. I bet if you totaled all of the groomers values it would not equal buying a 5 year old machine. Out of these listed they take nothing away from the North Country as you may think. The whole County combined receives less than 1 club above the notches as far as grooming money.Yet the SNHSS is consistently in the top 3 when it comes to membership size.

What does closing trails in the south have to do with increasing funding in the north? It will help the demise of the sport we all love. Many families like to ride out of their homes when conditions allow. Many count on that to share the experience with the youngsters. That is how many have come to be involved with snowmobiling.Not many with young kids would risk their safety by bringing them to Pittsburg for a first ride.The local clubs in the south along with clubs to our west do a standup job promoting the family sport of snowmobiling, not just the rich, young mans sport.There are many State Parks and Rail Trails in the south and western parts of the state. They are maintained by the volunteers of the clubs that you would like to be shuttered. Those volunteers give many the benefit of well maintained trails year round. They do so on the clubs dime not the states. Maybe you would rather see higher taxes to pay for it instead.

Try getting involved in a club closer to where you live to see why closing them is not a very smart option. You will probably find you will make many more friends than you will going north.These clubs are part of the community. It is not businesses that thrive from them but many local residents.who appreciate what they give back.

If all trails south of notch's were closed how well do you think the trails in Coos County would be? You wouldn't be able to make anything better with the amount of money that was spent south of there.Money doesn't replace snow nor does putting 40,000 snowmobiles in 5 clubs trail systems. After 10:00 am trails would be destroyed. People would be pissed and then ride at night following the groomers as that would be only time trails would be flat. Trails wouldn't even have time to set up properly. Now that would improve the snowmobile experience how? How would you personally enjoy riding your $20,000.00 worth of sleds after sitting in your $50,000 dollar truck for 4 hours? Then after another 50 mile day of riding moguls dodging a sled every 100 yards and a mogul every 50 feet have to get back in your truck and ride 4 hours home. Wicked pissa huh? Sport will be thriving. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My $300,000.00 dollar groomer!

2011-02-04 07-53-08 - IMG_3664.JPG

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1 hour ago, dirt dummy said:

My $300,000.00 dollar groomer!

2011-02-04 07-53-08 - IMG_3664.JPG

The high end expensive machines are big block Ford powered . First rate operator goes with it.

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9 hours ago, TTA89 said:

Thanks, I'm still trying to understand the cost structure.  If you register 1 sled the cost is basically a wash right?  27 bucks to join a club through NHSA and then 30 bucks off your reg.  I guess if you register multiple sleds it starts to make sense since you spend the 27 bucks and get 30 bucks off each reg.

So why are clubs even supporting this if they get less money if members join their specific club rather than paying the non-discounted fee and money going into the GIA?  I suppose they can hope that people will donate extra to the club when they sign up?  Otherwise... what's the point?

The situation prior to the change was that most registered, but never bothered to join a club. So club member would register, pay more to join a club, and then be responsible for getting all the work done - and there is a lot more work than the work parties with all the paperwork and legal requirements.

 

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It seems that New Hampshire isn't the only state where people are becoming concerned with the cost of vehicle registrations. The state of Washington supports citizen ballot initiatives to put proposed laws on the ballot. Here's one that now has the needed signatures to be on the 2019 ballot: "This measure would repeal or remove authority to impose certain vehicle taxes and fees; limit state and local license fees to $30 for motor vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less, except charges approved by voters after the measure's effective date; base vehicle taxes on Kelley Blue Book value; require regional transit authorities to retire bonds early where allowed; and either reduce or repeal taxes pledged to bonds depending on whether bonds are retired by 2020."

Snowmobiles are included in a list of vehicle registrations to be priced at $30, and vintage snowmobiles are priced at $12. Also included are OHRVs and motorcycles.

NH doesn't support citizen ballot initiatives.

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