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How high could sled registration go?

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28 minutes ago, RK-SXViper said:

You won't see the trails from Derry up to Candia going away because they are primarily Rail trails with State parks and town forests. So unless there is a significant investment in rerunning trains those trails will always be there.

 

28 minutes ago, RK-SXViper said:

 

Well, yes, the Rec trail will be there, but will it be maintained for sleds in winter? If so, who will do it? More importantly, who will pay to have that done? In a low-snow winter the clubs won't get grooming money, how will they pay their recurring expenses? If registrations continue their decline, the proposed fee increase may not be sufficient to provide grooming for 7,000 miles of trails. In the case of GIA rationing, or maybe prioritizing is a better word,  what trails will be the priority? Lots more questions than answers here, but I think you can see a trend of prioritizing the northern tier counties. If the southern clubs see significant membership losses where does their support come from?

An old friend had a saying he used when forced into an unpleasant choice: "It's hell, but the directions say take it." He wasn't just talking about taking cod liver oil. Paying more for snowmobile fees is sort of like taking cod liver oil.

For those younger folks who haven't experienced cod liver oil, ignorance is bliss.

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3 hours ago, jhwentworth said:

You seem to be a good example of one side of the "great divide" between the all-in riders and the occasional or casual riders. You've made a significant capital investment in the sport that far exceeds even several decades of registration fees, donations,  and club dues. That capital investment would be wasted if you rode primarily on local trails, so you head north to spend some recreational dollars.  Yeah, I'd say you represent the future of NH snowmobiling. So, what's that mean for the Pathfinders and Border Riders clubs? What happens to the existing trail systems in your geography?

I'm still not really sure about the "Great divide".  What does a casual rider mean?  You ride 2 days a year?  Even if you paid $150 per reg, that is $75 per day.  You still couldn't rent a sled for even half a day.  It's an expensive sport, it just is what it is.... like everything else. 

How much is the current NH reg?  I'm not even sure.

I'd be fine if the southern clubs closed up shop and freed that money to the north.  There are 7000 miles of trails...  How many miles are south of say Candia and/or are actually usually open Jan-Mar?  Those clubs get a 300K groomer and use it for how many weeks out of the season?  It doesn't make sense to me...  I don't want to see trails and clubs close but if there isn't money and people then make the northern stuff even better.

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45 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

I'd be fine if the southern clubs closed up shop and freed that money to the north.

The question is whether there would be as much money without those southern clubs. There are many people who register a sled or two, and join a club, and put 500 or less  miles per year on the sled. How many 5-year old sleds have you seen with 2000 miles? Pretty common.  If you paid $150 for registration and rode 500 miles, that $3.33 per mile. I agree that $150 is a fair price for a high-end user, but I suspect a lot of low usage riders will not register, and that revenue will be gone. I don't believe there's the option of continuing to collect current revenues and not supplying local trails.

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I don't have any numbers but I really can't imagine there are enough people joining the southern clubs to keep them viable without taking large amounts of reg money from riders that never ride in the south.  For me personally, I'd rather double the reg, close the southern trails, and put that money into the north where it's sustainable and attractive to go. The people you might lose over another $50 or $100 bucks a season are not really contributing much into the economy of the sport anyway. (Restaurants, Gas, Lodging. New sleds, etc)

Let's be honest, I doubt anybody is going to Derry as a destination for snowmobiling in NH.  I have never ridden the southern trails but I'll go try it this year and see what it's all about. 

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19 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

I don't have any numbers but I really can't imagine there are enough people joining the southern clubs to keep them viable without taking large amounts of reg money from riders that never ride in the south.  For me personally, I'd rather double the reg, close the southern trails, and put that money into the north where it's sustainable and attractive to go. The people you might lose over another $50 or $100 bucks a season are not really contributing much into the economy of the sport anyway. (Restaurants, Gas, Lodging. New sleds, etc)

Let's be honest, I doubt anybody is going to Derry as a destination for snowmobiling in NH.  I have never ridden the southern trails but I'll go try it this year and see what it's all about. 

Although Southern NH is a unlikely snowmobiling destination, it is amazing to see how many sleds are on the few trails we have. Unfortunately Mother Nature dictates this sport for all of us. When we are fortunate enough to have good snow cover, a lot of folks spend time on the sleds and not in the truck. The restaurants and gas stations do quite well anywhere near the trail systems.

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5 hours ago, TTA89 said:

I'm still not really sure about the "Great divide".  What does a casual rider mean?  You ride 2 days a year?  Even if you paid $150 per reg, that is $75 per day.  You still couldn't rent a sled for even half a day.  It's an expensive sport, it just is what it is.... like everything else. 

How much is the current NH reg?  I'm not even sure.

I'd be fine if the southern clubs closed up shop and freed that money to the north.  There are 7000 miles of trails...  How many miles are south of say Candia and/or are actually usually open Jan-Mar?  Those clubs get a 300K groomer and use it for how many weeks out of the season?  It doesn't make sense to me...  I don't want to see trails and clubs close but if there isn't money and people then make the northern stuff even better.

Quite obvious that you don't ride in the south or even realize what goes on there with the clubs who bust their asses to keep trails open for people who wish to ride their sleds instead of trucks.

There are no $300,000.00 groomers down here. I do not think there are any in the whole state. The newest groomers that I know of are the Mid 2000 vintage groomers that SNHSS have for full size and 2009 ASV Scout the NCP has. Kingston runs a nice older model Pistonbully. Derry runs an older BR, and Newfields runs a mid 90's Tucker. Nothing new just well cared for. NCP runs a 1973 Thiokol. The last GIA funding for a groomer purchase in Rockingham County was in 2009. I bet if you totaled all of the groomers values it would not equal buying a 5 year old machine. Out of these listed they take nothing away from the North Country as you may think. The whole County combined receives less than 1 club above the notches as far as grooming money.Yet the SNHSS is consistently in the top 3 when it comes to membership size.

What does closing trails in the south have to do with increasing funding in the north? It will help the demise of the sport we all love. Many families like to ride out of their homes when conditions allow. Many count on that to share the experience with the youngsters. That is how many have come to be involved with snowmobiling.Not many with young kids would risk their safety by bringing them to Pittsburg for a first ride.The local clubs in the south along with clubs to our west do a standup job promoting the family sport of snowmobiling, not just the rich, young mans sport.There are many State Parks and Rail Trails in the south and western parts of the state. They are maintained by the volunteers of the clubs that you would like to be shuttered. Those volunteers give many the benefit of well maintained trails year round. They do so on the clubs dime not the states. Maybe you would rather see higher taxes to pay for it instead.

Try getting involved in a club closer to where you live to see why closing them is not a very smart option. You will probably find you will make many more friends than you will going north.These clubs are part of the community. It is not businesses that thrive from them but many local residents.who appreciate what they give back.

If all trails south of notch's were closed how well do you think the trails in Coos County would be? You wouldn't be able to make anything better with the amount of money that was spent south of there.Money doesn't replace snow nor does putting 40,000 snowmobiles in 5 clubs trail systems. After 10:00 am trails would be destroyed. People would be pissed and then ride at night following the groomers as that would be only time trails would be flat. Trails wouldn't even have time to set up properly. Now that would improve the snowmobile experience how? How would you personally enjoy riding your $20,000.00 worth of sleds after sitting in your $50,000 dollar truck for 4 hours? Then after another 50 mile day of riding moguls dodging a sled every 100 yards and a mogul every 50 feet have to get back in your truck and ride 4 hours home. Wicked pissa huh? Sport will be thriving. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Freedom Rider,

I was talking about what options there are going forward if the reg fee isn't increased.  The argument from a lot of people is "I'll just go to Maine or I'll quit".  If the prevailing opinion is that half the snowmobilers were to quit or go somewhere else then I was simply saying I'd rather see the reg fee doubled to make up for those that quit and put the money into the north as many of those people that would quit or go somewhere else are probably in the south of the state.

I really don't know the logistics of how the money is spread around but I know the southern clubs probably to get a lot since there is really only snow to groom a few weeks a year. How do you keep things going if there isn't more money coming in to pay for maintenance and equipment?

P.S. I only drive 1:45 from, I have a house on the trail in Twin. :)

 

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2 hours ago, TTA89 said:

Freedom Rider,

I was talking about what options there are going forward if the reg fee isn't increased.  The argument from a lot of people is "I'll just go to Maine or I'll quit".  If the prevailing opinion is that half the snowmobilers were to quit or go somewhere else then I was simply saying I'd rather see the reg fee doubled to make up for those that quit and put the money into the north as many of those people that would quit or go somewhere else are probably in the south of the state.

I really don't know the logistics of how the money is spread around but I know the southern clubs probably to get a lot since there is really only snow to groom a few weeks a year. How do you keep things going if there isn't more money coming in to pay for maintenance and equipment?

P.S. I only drive 1:45 from, I have a house on the trail in Twin. :)

 

Congrats on the trailside house. Yet for most near the southern border it is normally 3-4 hours with all of the traffic and not really a super highway route to and from Coos County. There are many years that the south has more snow than Twin area. I used to ride Thanksgiving weekend on in the Twin area. Then the snow drought started.

Grooming allocations are a Grant system. Clubs get 65% towards grooming hours. They have to match that out of their own funds. They write a request for hours based on location, type of terrain, traffic, and mileage of Corridor trails they maintain. There has been no increases in grooming hours in 10 plus years. The club only see's money if they groom according to their contract. Meaning there must be 8 inches of continuous snow depth coverage. Club needs to adhere to their submitted grooming schedule. They must budget their hours used so they can make to end of the season if there is enough snow to do so.

Grooming contracts if used completely rarely cover expenses for the groomer. They are operated by volunteers. Average club insurance for groomer equipment is around $2500-4500.00 per year. Bigger clubs in lakes region see maybe $20,000.00 groomer contracts. Consider average diesel use per hour is 3-4 gallons. Add in fuel treatment cost.Payment for purchase of equipment cost. Maintenance cost. Totaled up barely will cover hourly rate of mid $40.00 per hour for larger equipment.They will only see maximum if they run full season. No snow means no funding.

The registration increase will do very little to properly fund the clubs or the sport.It will fund 2 state agencies and their payroll. The agencies are overhead for the sport. They do nothing to increase the operating efficiency of the groomers. They do nothing building and maintaining trails. They do not make snow. They do not bring in tourism either. The actual amount of money a club will see on average will really not equate to much.

If everyone registered their sleds as a non club member today there would actually be a higher percentage going into the funding for trails than will with 100% increase. More return on the invested dollar. No rewriting of legislature at huge financial and PR cost. The $30.00 surcharge for doing so goes 100% into Grant in Aid program. This is where the clubs get their funding. No place else other than Bean suppers, membership dues, and other club based small fundraising events.

As it is the state has seen a decrease in the registered amount of sleds. In the area of 20% before talk of registration increase. With the slight of hand they are just taking agency funding budgets and making 20% less consumers funding it at 100% increase in fees. Now if clubs get forced out you lose trails. Less trails means greater amount on the trails left. Many families will leave the sport altogether. Again it further dilutes the pool to pay for the escalating cost of funding the 2 state agencies.A would bet most clubs feel like F&G fails miserably in protecting the trails and landowners. Does giving more money to them resolve this? Nope, they use so much money on other duties than snowmobiling it is not funny. There are more articles in Union Leader about F&G rescues year round than you will ever see about snowmobiling. F&G gets its funding from 3 places and none of it is from general Funds. OHRV, Hunting, and land preservation type grants. Don't see anything but over 2/3 user fees there yet those groups get less service than the free loader activity groups. There budget goes up every year yet they do not have enough officers to even cover regular work hours. Lack of help means the use of Overtime to have minimal staffing coverage. Pay much more for less.

End of the day more questions than answers.If you sent every penny to only Pitts., Colebrook, Swift Diamond, and other Coos clubs only there trails would suck. It would be like riding in downtown Boston. The money can't make new snow. It can't make less people on same crowded trails.It can however drive many away from sport. You can't equate snowmobiling with skiing. Man-made snow.Private for profit companies. Controlled access and managed trails. Think about security or safety at any ski area. They have more staff at any given point on duty that F&G have on duty in the whole state.

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Very well put Jeff. This issue has no simple solution and just throwing more money at it will only push more people out of the sport which will have ripple effects across many towns and other organizations.

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Thank you Jeff,

 

It is amazing what people don't realize. Derry Pathfinders in the past has had up to 400 members, It is not Pittsburg or Swift Diamond, but it sure does help us maintain what we take care of. 

 

I also agree, less trails means more people on fewer trails, more problems.

 

But then again, I am from Southern New Hampshire, what do I know about snowmobiling up North. 

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I actually think that by being from down south there is more appreciation for getting it done on limited resources and marginal conditions. If you look at all the trail projects that have been done in the south with little to no funding, I think the clubs do awesome raising the money to get it done.Grooming gets done with antiquated equipment. I would be willing to put up number on sleds on any given weekend with 6 inches of snow on the Rockingham Rec Trail. vs many road crossings up north. I bet that they are pretty close.

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Well said Jeff. Unfortunately the big government solution is always to throw more money at the problem, rather than solve the problem.

I would better understand a rate increase if I was convinced that all other options on the table had been exhausted, and a comprehensive impartial study had been undertaken. But a select group of people meeting in a back room with little to no public/membership input does not constitute, in my opinion, an all options discussion. And the tired  (and completely irrelevant) argument that people pay more to ski does not seem to me the comprehensive study that needs to be taken.

 

In the end they'll have their way. Rates will go up substantially. Less riders (particularly families with multiple older sleds, the back bone of clubs such as the OVSC) will register and the membership death spiral will grow exponentially.......

 

 

Edited by Skip

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Too bad there are not more open minded people that could see where this is going. The majority of clubs still come down to the everyday average Joe and his family. They are the ones that support their local clubs. They donate their time. They help raise money for fundraisers etc. The people with "all" the big money materialistic things usually have the thought process is their time is too important. Or they pay their registration and the trail work is the responsibility of people who are less important.One of the sayings that I always used to hear when asking for volunteers is "I live too far away", "I work too many hours", or "I always throw $20.00 in the groomer jar" Notice a consistency here? I , I , I it is always about I not us as a club, volunteer, or a user group. But if there is a snowstorm coming everything else ceases. They find the time to ride. They make the time to take off from work to ride. Too many I's are calling the shots. If you get rid of the some of the  larger clubs in Lakes Region, Grafton County, Rockingham, and the western part of the state you will ruin the sport. The percentage of people who own 2nd homes up in Coos are relatively low. There are even less places that offer reasonable lodging. That leaves the average Joe consumer and his family no place to go. The registration numbers are more reflective on the average Joe that the person who buys new sled every year and goes to Pittsburg for a week.For a family it is easier to join club and register their older sleds. They are not losing much if bad year of snow. Now take person who spends $15,000.00 on new sled every year or two. If two bad years they are moving on to another state or out of sport all together. The balance of available resources is based on miles, weeks of season, and availability of clubs to do the work. Taking money from one part to throw to another part of state makes no sense. The majority of residents live in area below bottom of Winni. Do you see many of those who have the chance to ride from their houses if good snow saying lets close all the trails so I can go to Coos once a year? The clubs in COOS have not been adding miles of trails much in last 10 years. The system up there on weekends barely can offer decent riding with so many sleds. Where do you send everyone when you effectively force clubs out of business and along with them the trails that they get permission for and maintain?

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1 hour ago, RK-SXViper said:

Very well put Jeff. This issue has no simple solution and just throwing more money at it will only push more people out of the sport which will have ripple effects across many towns and other organizations.

Thank you. Less staying in the sport will mean more money for those to stay in sport. The agencies will never be asking for less money or a flat line budget.

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21 hours ago, Freedom Rider said:

Quite obvious that you don't ride in the south or even realize what goes on there with the clubs who bust their asses to keep trails open for people who wish to ride their sleds instead of trucks.

There are no $300,000.00 groomers down here. I do not think there are any in the whole state. The newest groomers that I know of are the Mid 2000 vintage groomers that SNHSS have for full size and 2009 ASV Scout the NCP has. Kingston runs a nice older model Pistonbully. Derry runs an older BR, and Newfields runs a mid 90's Tucker. Nothing new just well cared for. NCP runs a 1973 Thiokol. The last GIA funding for a groomer purchase in Rockingham County was in 2009. I bet if you totaled all of the groomers values it would not equal buying a 5 year old machine. Out of these listed they take nothing away from the North Country as you may think. The whole County combined receives less than 1 club above the notches as far as grooming money.Yet the SNHSS is consistently in the top 3 when it comes to membership size.

What does closing trails in the south have to do with increasing funding in the north? It will help the demise of the sport we all love. Many families like to ride out of their homes when conditions allow. Many count on that to share the experience with the youngsters. That is how many have come to be involved with snowmobiling.Not many with young kids would risk their safety by bringing them to Pittsburg for a first ride.The local clubs in the south along with clubs to our west do a standup job promoting the family sport of snowmobiling, not just the rich, young mans sport.There are many State Parks and Rail Trails in the south and western parts of the state. They are maintained by the volunteers of the clubs that you would like to be shuttered. Those volunteers give many the benefit of well maintained trails year round. They do so on the clubs dime not the states. Maybe you would rather see higher taxes to pay for it instead.

Try getting involved in a club closer to where you live to see why closing them is not a very smart option. You will probably find you will make many more friends than you will going north.These clubs are part of the community. It is not businesses that thrive from them but many local residents.who appreciate what they give back.

If all trails south of notch's were closed how well do you think the trails in Coos County would be? You wouldn't be able to make anything better with the amount of money that was spent south of there.Money doesn't replace snow nor does putting 40,000 snowmobiles in 5 clubs trail systems. After 10:00 am trails would be destroyed. People would be pissed and then ride at night following the groomers as that would be only time trails would be flat. Trails wouldn't even have time to set up properly. Now that would improve the snowmobile experience how? How would you personally enjoy riding your $20,000.00 worth of sleds after sitting in your $50,000 dollar truck for 4 hours? Then after another 50 mile day of riding moguls dodging a sled every 100 yards and a mogul every 50 feet have to get back in your truck and ride 4 hours home. Wicked pissa huh? Sport will be thriving. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Very well said Jeff.

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9 hours ago, Freedom Rider said:

 

If everyone registered their sleds as a non club member today there would actually be a higher percentage going into the funding for trails than will with 100% increase. More return on the invested dollar. No rewriting of legislature at huge financial and PR cost. The $30.00 surcharge for doing so goes 100% into Grant in Aid program. This is where the clubs get their funding. No place else other than Bean suppers, membership dues, and other club based small fundraising events.

 

Can you elaborate on this? I guess I don't understand how it works.

I join a club through NHSA and then when I go to register I get a $30 discount because I joined a club?  But if I don't join the club through NHSA and pay the full reg amount the clubs get more money?  

I'd also love to see a breakdown of the 40,000 sled registrations, specifically the number of sleds registered that are 5 years old or newer and resident vs non-resident. 

 

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1 hour ago, TTA89 said:

Can you elaborate on this? I guess I don't understand how it works.

I join a club through NHSA and then when I go to register I get a $30 discount because I joined a club?  But if I don't join the club through NHSA and pay the full reg amount the clubs get more money?  

I'd also love to see a breakdown of the 40,000 sled registrations, specifically the number of sleds registered that are 5 years old or newer and resident vs non-resident. 

 

The extra $10 that goes to the Association would be available for the clubs to use under GIA.

Resident to non-resident is usually provided by the F&G, age of machine would take some time in the database... 

 

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9 hours ago, Freedom Rider said:

Thank you. Less staying in the sport will mean more money for those to stay in sport. The agencies will never be asking for less money or a flat line budget.

A flat line budget would still mean an increase due to the current lower number of sled registrations than was previously used. 

It would also mean a drop in purchasing power due to inflation.

Taking those two items into consideration would mean about a 25% increase for the lower registration numbers, and then about a 28% increase for inflationary adjustments.

That is how the State of NH budgets.

 

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10 hours ago, Skip said:

Well said Jeff. Unfortunately the big government solution is always to throw more money at the problem, rather than solve the problem.

I would better understand a rate increase if I was convinced that all other options on the table had been exhausted, and a comprehensive impartial study had been undertaken. But a select group of people meeting in a back room with little to no public/membership input does not constitute, in my opinion, an all options discussion. And the tired  (and completely irrelevant) argument that people pay more to ski does not seem to me the comprehensive study that needs to be taken.

 

In the end they'll have their way. Rates will go up substantially. Less riders (particularly families with multiple older sleds, the back bone of clubs such as the OVSC) will register and the membership death spiral will grow exponentially.......

 

 

There is a State committee... actually I think it may be the second one... exploring the options to fund F&G.

 

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On 10/30/2018 at 0:27 AM, Freedom Rider said:

Quite obvious that you don't ride in the south or even realize what goes on there with the clubs who bust their asses to keep trails open for people who wish to ride their sleds instead of trucks.

There are no $300,000.00 groomers down here. I do not think there are any in the whole state. The newest groomers that I know of are the Mid 2000 vintage groomers that SNHSS have for full size and 2009 ASV Scout the NCP has. Kingston runs a nice older model Pistonbully. Derry runs an older BR, and Newfields runs a mid 90's Tucker. Nothing new just well cared for. NCP runs a 1973 Thiokol. The last GIA funding for a groomer purchase in Rockingham County was in 2009. I bet if you totaled all of the groomers values it would not equal buying a 5 year old machine. Out of these listed they take nothing away from the North Country as you may think. The whole County combined receives less than 1 club above the notches as far as grooming money.Yet the SNHSS is consistently in the top 3 when it comes to membership size.

What does closing trails in the south have to do with increasing funding in the north? It will help the demise of the sport we all love. Many families like to ride out of their homes when conditions allow. Many count on that to share the experience with the youngsters. That is how many have come to be involved with snowmobiling.Not many with young kids would risk their safety by bringing them to Pittsburg for a first ride.The local clubs in the south along with clubs to our west do a standup job promoting the family sport of snowmobiling, not just the rich, young mans sport.There are many State Parks and Rail Trails in the south and western parts of the state. They are maintained by the volunteers of the clubs that you would like to be shuttered. Those volunteers give many the benefit of well maintained trails year round. They do so on the clubs dime not the states. Maybe you would rather see higher taxes to pay for it instead.

Try getting involved in a club closer to where you live to see why closing them is not a very smart option. You will probably find you will make many more friends than you will going north.These clubs are part of the community. It is not businesses that thrive from them but many local residents.who appreciate what they give back.

If all trails south of notch's were closed how well do you think the trails in Coos County would be? You wouldn't be able to make anything better with the amount of money that was spent south of there.Money doesn't replace snow nor does putting 40,000 snowmobiles in 5 clubs trail systems. After 10:00 am trails would be destroyed. People would be pissed and then ride at night following the groomers as that would be only time trails would be flat. Trails wouldn't even have time to set up properly. Now that would improve the snowmobile experience how? How would you personally enjoy riding your $20,000.00 worth of sleds after sitting in your $50,000 dollar truck for 4 hours? Then after another 50 mile day of riding moguls dodging a sled every 100 yards and a mogul every 50 feet have to get back in your truck and ride 4 hours home. Wicked pissa huh? Sport will be thriving. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well said. I have done day trips when the weather is right, riding from Bow several times, and from Tilton to Alton Bay, and had great days. The trails there are better than you might think.  

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Why does it seem like NH is so dysfunctional?  Here is my experience this year:

Vermont - Sign into 1 website and pay once for Registration and join a club at the same time.  Get an email receipt and a few weeks later my stickers show up in the mail.

Maine - Sign into 1 website and pay for registration.  Get an email receipt and a few days later my stickers show up in the mail.

NH - No clear process, find my way to the NHSA website and join a club but you can't register your sled online.  No emailed receipt that I can find after I join the NHSA but it clearly says to print out your voucher to bring to a registration location before you close your browser window.  No easy way to find your way back to the website and find your voucher if you didn't have access to a printer when you first joined. Then physically go to a registration station and listen to them tell the guy in front of you that they need to join the club online and they can't do it for you.  Listen to complaints and asks if he can use their computer to join?  It's finally my turn, I was lucky enough to read online and know that I needed to show the voucher number and I was able to save it to my phone and retrieve it when asked.  I know full well, the majority of people will not know or be able to do this.  Why can't we do the whole thing in one transaction online?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

Why does it seem like NH is so dysfunctional?  Here is my experience this year:

Vermont - Sign into 1 website and pay once for Registration and join a club at the same time.  Get an email receipt and a few weeks later my stickers show up in the mail.

Maine - Sign into 1 website and pay for registration.  Get an email receipt and a few days later my stickers show up in the mail.

NH - No clear process, find my way to the NHSA website and join a club but you can't register your sled online.  No emailed receipt that I can find after I join the NHSA but it clearly says to print out your voucher to bring to a registration location before you close your browser window.  No easy way to find your way back to the website and find your voucher if you didn't have access to a printer when you first joined. Then physically go to a registration station and listen to them tell the guy in front of you that they need to join the club online and they can't do it for you.  Listen to complaints and asks if he can use their computer to join?  It's finally my turn, I was lucky enough to read online and know that I needed to show the voucher number and I was able to save it to my phone and retrieve it when asked.  I know full well, the majority of people will not know or be able to do this.  Why can't we do the whole thing in one transaction online?

 

 

That is an easy one to answer.

Never Have Straight Answer

The group that is supposed to promote the sport and help lead the clubs cares only about taking the money. They take $10.00 fee for voucher and $2.00 transaction fee to use their shitty system.

Be very aware that there is very little security regarding your personal info when using it.Any person with access to Portal such as any club membership chair or past chair whose name and password is still valid can get all of your info even if you are not a member of their club. Clubs database's work product can be taken without anyone's permission and be sold or misused. In one instance one person accidentally received over 65 pages of membership from every club in state for this season when they tried to download their club membership report. If you do a search of any name using the first letter you will get a master list of everyone for the last three years who joined. All of their personal info is there.It does export to Excell CSV. spreadsheet. Anyone  could have entire database in under 30 minutes.Issue was raised by County Director at Board meeting making them aware on record of problem.The person it happened to also made NHSA aware. Answer from program administrator is they will put a note saying that basically you cant do that. It was also stated that it is impossible to do it and they cannot replicate it. Yet at our county meeting a person with limited basic knowledge did it on their phone in front of everyone.

Another issue is the club is not being notified when a person joins thru Point of Sale portal. There name is just added into club entered membership. So unless membership person does comparison of who they entered vs.all the combined entries they do not know who has joined their club to receive any correspondence or membership benefits from the club. Many clubs give you a welcome letter, membership cards, schedule of activities, or a map when joining.If you join by paying the $2.00 extra charge way instead of directly thru club be aware you may not receive anything from club. You definitely won't receive anything from NHSA.

Fish and Game, who is responsible for the archaic registration system is to blame as well. They went to legislature to get the legal ability to allow the NHSA to sell discounts to register a sled in NH. In return for the wink, wink support by the agency the NHSA and its paid Lobbyist are now pushing through the 100% increase in registration fees.Imagine if any state made you join AAA to register your car? AARP needs to be joined if you want to receive your Soc. Sec. benefits? In any other state never will happen. Only in NH, where agency inbreeding is allowed, it not only is allowed but is promoted by the state.

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41 minutes ago, TTA89 said:

Why does it seem like NH is so dysfunctional?  Here is my experience this year:

Vermont - Sign into 1 website and pay once for Registration and join a club at the same time.  Get an email receipt and a few weeks later my stickers show up in the mail.

Maine - Sign into 1 website and pay for registration.  Get an email receipt and a few days later my stickers show up in the mail.

NH - No clear process, find my way to the NHSA website and join a club but you can't register your sled online.  No emailed receipt that I can find after I join the NHSA but it clearly says to print out your voucher to bring to a registration location before you close your browser window.  No easy way to find your way back to the website and find your voucher if you didn't have access to a printer when you first joined. Then physically go to a registration station and listen to them tell the guy in front of you that they need to join the club online and they can't do it for you.  Listen to complaints and asks if he can use their computer to join?  It's finally my turn, I was lucky enough to read online and know that I needed to show the voucher number and I was able to save it to my phone and retrieve it when asked.  I know full well, the majority of people will not know or be able to do this.  Why can't we do the whole thing in one transaction online?

 

 

Because there are too many hands in the cookie jar. Snowmobiling in NH is a self funded sport unlike Maine and VT which have state control over the sport. NH clubs are non profits and can have no connection to a state agency (F&G) so there will never be a one stop website to register your sled. Like Jeff mentioned if you register as a non club member and pay the extra $30 per sled, all of that $30 will go into GIA for all clubs to use. So if you really want to help the sport register as a non club member then go and make a donation to your local club

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13 hours ago, TTA89 said:

Can you elaborate on this? I guess I don't understand how it works.

I join a club through NHSA and then when I go to register I get a $30 discount because I joined a club?  But if I don't join the club through NHSA and pay the full reg amount the clubs get more money?  

I'd also love to see a breakdown of the 40,000 sled registrations, specifically the number of sleds registered that are 5 years old or newer and resident vs non-resident. 

 

All of the following numbers come from the NHF&G Law Enforcement Report for NHSA Meeting – May 19, 2018.
•    The five-year snowmobile registration average is 41,160
•    35% Nonresidents and 65% Residents
•    86% were club members that used the $30 discount.

1)    41,160 (average member registrations) x 65% (NH residents) = 26,754 (Average yearly NH resident registrations) 
2)    26,754 x 86% (Discount use) = 23,008 (Average Yearly Registrations that used the discount)
3)    23,008 x $30 (Money that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid) = $690,240 (Average Yearly Income that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid)
4)    $690,240 x 14 years (Time since the discounted was enacted) = $9,663,360

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33 minutes ago, Freedom Rider said:

 

Another issue is the club is not being notified when a person joins thru Point of Sale portal. There name is just added into club entered membership. So unless membership person does comparison of who they entered vs.all the combined entries they do not know who has joined their club to receive any correspondence or membership benefits from the club. Many clubs give you a welcome letter, membership cards, schedule of activities, or a map when joining.If you join by paying the $2.00 extra charge way instead of directly thru club be aware you may not receive anything from club. You definitely won't receive anything from NHSA.

 

I don't know if it's because I donate extra but I got an email from the club President a day after I renewed through NHSA thanking me for my donation. So either it's coincidence or he got a notification...I just looked back through my email history and he contacted me the last few years after I signed up as well.  Not that it matters, but I get your point.

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