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dbcopeland

What did you do with your portion of the $10 million

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WHAT DID YOU DO WITH YOUR PORTION OF THE 10 MILLION DOLLARS? AND WAS IT WORTH IT?

$9,663,360 is the conservative amount that Grant-In-Aid has lost over the past 14 years since the discounted registration has been in effect. I say this amount is conservative because the number of registered sleds has dropped off in recent years compared to earlier years.

All of the following numbers come from the NHF&G Law Enforcement Report for NHSA Meeting – May 19, 2018.
•    The five-year snowmobile registration average is 41,160
•    35% Nonresidents and 65% Residents
•    86% were club members that used the $30 discount.

1)    41,160 (average member registrations) x 65% (NH residents) = 26,754 (Average yearly NH resident registrations) 
2)    26,754 x 86% (Discount use) = 23,008 (Average Yearly Registrations that used the discount)
3)    23,008 x $30 (Money that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid) = $690,240 (Average Yearly Income that would have gone to Grant-In-Aid)
4)    $690,240 x 14 years (Time since the discounted was enacted) = $9,663,360

I think you are going to have a hard time reconciling with whatever you did with your portion of the 10 million dollars compared to what it would have done if it had remained with Grant-In-Aid. 

Think of all the trail projects that could have been completed, all of the equipment that could have been purchased, and all the trails that might not have been closed if Grant-In-Aid had not lost $30 from each discounted registration over the past 14 years. I realize that originally, this discount was to get more residents to join snowmobile clubs to help with trail maintenance and other club activities. Everyone would agree that we do have more members, but that only a very small amount (5%-10%) actually participate. Normally, it’s the same number of members as before the discount began. 

How long will it be before you have your child, or grandchild on your knee and are telling them how it used to be? We used to be able to ride right out of our yard, leave at 9:00, ride 100 miles, stop for lunch and gas, be home before dark, see only 30 or so sleds, and put 180 miles on nice trails. Now it’s wake up at 6:30am, already have the sleds loaded on the trailer, leave at 7:00am to drive for 2 hours, unload, and ride in a 60 mile circle, no food or gas, try to do 2 laps, meet over 300 sleds, and the last 30 miles of the trails are the now typical run down conditions with so few trails left, finish your last lap after dark, take 3 hours to get home in traffic and wonder if it was all worth the effort.

It’s time that we stop taking the cheapest path. We need to start respecting the sport and paying our fair share.

You need to register without taking the discount. You’ll pay $96 per sled, of which $30 goes directly to Grant-In-Aide. Join a club or multiple clubs and participate. Why isn’t anyone else proposing this? Everyone knows and agrees we need more funding. This would be a very proactive action the NHSA could take. The problem is that they are using the discount as a way to extort money from those of you that are looking for the cheapest way to register, not the best way to register for the sport. They are counting on you to continue on just like the past 14 years. So, if you register the best possible way to support the sport (paying $96 per sled), this deprives the NHSA from being able to extort money from you. They are only concerned with their bottom line and they are not taking into consideration what consequences this action has on the sport. It’s no wonder that their approval rating is in free fall. Since the NHSA has no compassion for the sport, we must act on our own.

REGISTER TO SUPPORT THE SPORT AND ITS FUTURE.

1.    Register each sled for $96, take no discount.

2.    Join a club or clubs and participate.

3.    A cautionary note, some clubs’ bylaws list the club as all 100% of its members must belong to the NHSA, and you can be sure that the NHSA knows exactly which clubs have this in their bylaws and are counting on your money. If you change your bylaws, the club’s members can still choose to belong to the NHSA, but if the evil empire isn’t getting enough money because more and more people start to register to support the sport and its future, they will probably raise the club dues first from $30 to $100 or $150. If that’s not enough then they will probably look to rise individual membership from $10 to $20 or more and you will not be caught in this trap if you have changed your bylaws.

4.    I’m sure that most of you have done the math, but for those that have not.
23,008 x $10 = $230080 x 14 years = 3,221,120 is what you have paid the NHSA.
It gets even better, you could have put $30 to work where it will do the most good (Grant-In-Aid).Instead you decided to give $10 to the NHSA, for what?, which left you with $20 to spend on what? Coffee?


Thanks Dave Copeland 
And yes, please post, forward anywhere it will be read.

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Dave, you're right that "the discount" has not worked out as intended. No increase in volunteers and less money in the pool for GIA. Some clubs have flourished,  some have not. The problem is that a state-wide trail system depends on all clubs doing well. A single-sled registration is revenue neutral, a multiple sled registration is not .

What we're dealing with here is a legislative issue, not the clubs or NHSA, so it's time for interested parties to contact their local legislators to sponsor and support a change in legislation.

Go to http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/members/wml.aspx

and https://gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/members/senate_roster.aspx 

Here are the House and Senate standing committees that oversee F&G

NH House Fish and Game and Marine Resources
Chairman James Webb
Vice Chairman Robert L'Heureux Secretary: Heather Ebbs
Researcher: Joel Anderson Location: LOB
Phone: 271-3125

Committee Members:
John Klose(r)
James Spillane(r)
Rio Tilton(r)
Duane Brown(r)
Ed Comeau(r)
Raymond Howard(r)
David Binford(r)
John Carr(r)
Jim Nasser(r)
Jonathan Manley(d)
Richard McNamara(d)
Jesse Martineau(d)
Roger Dontonville(d)
Cathryn Harvey(D)
Mark King(d)
Larry Laflamme(d)
Ellen Read(d)
Erika Connors(d)

NH Senate Energy and Natural Resources
Chairman Kevin Avard
V Chairman Jeb Bradley

Committee

Martha Fuller Clark
Dan Feltes
Daniel Innis
Committee Aide: Griffin Roberge
Phone: 271-2878
Location: SH Rm 103

 

It would be at least a year or two before any action could be expected on this, and the legislature might well listen to the opinion of the NHSA over the opinions of individual members. What is the official NHSA opinion on the club discount?  Has there been a recent poll of club leadership on the subject? The clubs send delegates to the annual meeting and they vote to support the current management. A legislator might look at this and say that things look pretty good and the grumblings are from a handful of malcontents.

Edited by jhwentworth
Added House and Senate committees.

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I think the Legislature will more likely question the fact that they just barely passed legislation to cover OHRV/OHM's under the same policy. It would not make a lot of sense to go one way, and then the other, all within a short period of time. So the Legislature is most likely going to consider this an ''internal'' issue for the community, rather than a legislative imperative.

The House Committee is going to be more likely to consider F&G funding, and BoT funding, to be more of a legislative imperative when it comes to the registration policy. 

The ''loss'' of trails that Dave is pointing out is historically inconsistent and the causation inaccurate. Snowmobile trail miles are historically high relative to decades past. The '''loss'' of trails are most attributed to development - snowmobiles do not set aside money to purchase or lease land, undesired activity - that would equate to more F&G officers and not more GIA, and changes in the weather pattern - not something within the empowerment of the NH Legislature.

 

    

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14 hours ago, John Mercier said:

I think the Legislature will more likely question the fact that they just barely passed legislation to cover OHRV/OHM's under the same policy. It would not make a lot of sense to go one way, and then the other, all within a short period of time. So the Legislature is most likely going to consider this an ''internal'' issue for the community, rather than a legislative imperative.

The House Committee is going to be more likely to consider F&G funding, and BoT funding, to be more of a legislative imperative when it comes to the registration policy. 

The ''loss'' of trails that Dave is pointing out is historically inconsistent and the causation inaccurate. Snowmobile trail miles are historically high relative to decades past. The '''loss'' of trails are most attributed to development - snowmobiles do not set aside money to purchase or lease land, undesired activity - that would equate to more F&G officers and not more GIA, and changes in the weather pattern - not something within the empowerment of the NH Legislature.

 

    

Why do you even respond as you are not a snowmobiler?

You are always trying to tell people what the person making the post was thinking.

What Dave is proposing is to increase funding for GIA to help in the time it will take it to even get to legislature. The NHSA is pushing for 100% increase in registration and then another $30.00 increase shortly thereafter. When you look at the money that finally trickles down from those proposed numbers to GIA it doesn't help very much.The overhead of the Agencies will eat most of it up. Easiest way to keep snowmobile clubs healthy and riders from leaving state is to just get rid of discount and have everybody just pay the $30.00 more per sled and it goes to GIA and not the Agencies overhead. I ask you this. What pays it's way more evenly? One sled that pays the $96.00 or 4 sleds taking $30.00 discount per sled and only paying $20.00 (average) and $10.00 for discount voucher? 4 x $96.00 =$384.00 -$120.00=$264.00+$20.00 (club fee)+$10.00 Discount voucher=$294.00 /4 sleds = $73.50 per sled. 4 sleds do 4 times as much damage as one sled. But the club/GIA only sees $73.50 per sled vs. teh $96.00 for the one. The one sled pays a lot more for its use on the trail and into the program than the failed club discount program. It doesnt get anymore people to help out. It only allows NHSA to make $10.00 per voucher. And none of that money ever sees the club or trails.

The loss of trails he is referring to is that of areas where the clubs are closing the doors because of lack of funding and volunteers.NHSA clubs have gone from 114 to 106 in just a couple of years and still more closing soon.

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I know what Dave was proposing. I did not respond to Dave, I responded to John.

Dave's proposal was not seeking a legislative action... it was only a plea registrants to take an option that already exists.

The loss of clubs, and loss of miles, is not always the same.

i have a lot more experience in that area than most.

Belknap ATV - in an area that John would know about - closed its club and merged with NDATV. The reason was not a lack of funding... the club was heavily funded with plenty of GIA/RTP access. The problem was that of the 24 months that officers served... all the officers except myself missed more than 12 monthly meetings. Without enough officers at a monthly meeting, no quorum... so no business could be conducted and no management decisions made.

After the merger with NDVATV, several came forward asking if we could keep the Belknap ATV trails open... I explained that we could... but it would require someone to step forward and be a Trail Master reporting to the Trail Administrator for that happen. Several stepped forward, but almost instantly resigned. It takes quite a bit of human effort to keep even an established trail viable.

NDVATV had a large trail closure. But it also had exceptional funding and access to grants. The landowner did not want to enter a lease, and did not wish to sell, so having access to funding for such did not help. The landowner being unhappy with undesired activities not related to OHRVs occurring on their land and no F&G support on the issue.

So even though the ''loss'' of trails in the OHRV community is not weather-related (that is an issue that they will not have to deal with).... I stand on my assessment of trail loss, the historical number of miles of trails, and the focus that the legislative committees will have. But if you don't agree... then read past posts on trail closures. GIA doesn't stop riders from going where they shouldn't or doing what they shouldn't. 

The issues that are being presented are internal to the snowmobile community... their clubs and the NHSA.     

 

 

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On 8/24/2018 at 6:16 PM, jhwentworth said:

What is the official NHSA opinion on the club discount?  Has there been a recent poll of club leadership on the subject?

I asked these questions in a previous post in this thread, but no response. 

I find it interesting that while there's a good deal of talk here about the roles and responsibilities of the NHSA and the clubs, you seldom hear any official statements from either party. From what I read, neither the clubs or the NHSA even have an opinion of the club discount. The NHSA floated a trial balloon on registration increases, but I haven't heard any responses from a club either pro or con. Could be just the summer season I guess. Haven't heard any NHSA or club statements about how the issues around club memberships might be resolved. Probably summer season again. Probably in October we'll hear a lot of communications on these subjects and many others. 

Looking at the NHSA web site It seems that the priority issues are Camp Sno-Mo, the Volunteer Bonus Program, the Grass Drags, and Tucker Hibbard's retirement. Back in December 2017 the NHSA put up a story by F&G's Captain David Walsh, where he stressed the importance of maintaining good landowner relationships to keep trails open. Is there an NHSA committee that works on trail closure issues? Does the NHSA consider trail closures to be an equal priority to the Grass Drags, or something less? Would the health of our clubs be more or less important than the Easter Seals Ride-In? Does your club's newsletter discuss the challenges they're facing in maintaining club memberships and the existing trail structure, buying equipment,  recruiting volunteers, and raising the funds to do all these things? From my experience, there are some clubs that do that, and many that don't.

What does the NHSA think snowmobiling, and our trail system,  will look like in 2025? In 2030?  And, what could we do, and what are we doing, to preserve what we have as much as possible? 

The public tends to believe that the subject of our communications represents our priorities, or more simply, we talk about what we believe in, but is that true for the clubs and the NHSA? If so, I should probably make an Easter Seals' donation, volunteer to work the Grass Drags, and get a retirement card in the mail to Tucker Hibbard,

Edited by jhwentworth

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