Special Meeting

[smthopr8r 24]

  What is everyone's feelings on voting in the new revised by-laws for NHSA. This is a critical vote and we can not afford to be misguided on this item. I like most of the by-law rewrite but the fact that the rules of business are not part of the vote is very suspect. The rules of business should be part of the package we are voting for. If this goes through as is,  the board would be able to change any rule they want without it going to the clubs. How do you feel about this?

[PolarisCobra 131]

Changing things without tank and file approval seems like a bad idea to me.

I also think this $10 'processing' free is not great. I would be willing to pay the $10 when I jion a club to be in NHSA, because I think it's a good thing to do. But it seems to me that the deal with the attorney general was that they could not force it, and this seems to be a way to do just that. 

[dubba 7]

I feel the new bylaws cede all power to the board by the rules of business. 

 

While there is a 60 day notification necessary to change the rules of business, there is no compulsory notification to the clubs or members. Timed correctly, the rules of business can be changed without anyone but  the board knowing. 

[pekabu 35]

It's seems that NHSA is really trying to consolidate the power into the Board.   Instead of embracing the membership  (clubs specifically) it appears to really be attempting to solidify control and pushing their agenda.    I'm really thinking it's time for another association.  

[rivercat 119]

Dave you do realize the board is made up of two directors ( a director as well as an assistant director)  that represent their County Clubs at the board table,  Every county in the State is represented at the board table. Each director is tasked with representing their County Culbs to the best of their ability. Yet all matters still come down to a VOTE of the board, 

 I do know that much time and effort has been put forth by the office and board as well as the NH Office of the “AG” getting to this point. The board did vet the bylaw changes as a group and reached a unanimous consensus. Are you regularly attending your County meetings? 

If a new “Association” is formed do you have a plan in place that will ALWAYS keep 25,000 members totally “happy”? 

There are many moving parts to every organization. It’s not always as “simple” as you’d like it to be or appear. 

Should the NHSA office rent, utilities, staff, postage, insurance, lobbiest, programs, gathering places, all be “FREE”?  Sure why not?  and maybe registration, law enforcement, and  grooming equipment will follow suit ,,, 

I’ll close with this,,, as a businessman ( for the last 40 years) what I have witnessed since last July as a director and snowmobiler,, the office staff and board deserve a HUGE standing ovation,,, just my opinion 

[ICG 7]

5 hours ago, pekabu said:

It's seems that NHSA is really trying to consolidate the power into the Board.   Instead of embracing the membership  (clubs specifically) it appears to really be attempting to solidify control and pushing their agenda.    I'm really thinking it's time for another association.  

 

Personally,  I've been  thinking for years,  it's time for  a  NORTH COUNTRY   Snowmobile Association!!!!      NHSA  doesn't seem to be the answer !

Edited April 5, 2018 by ICG
spelling

[Penelope 2]

Don't like their cost! shouldn't be in RSA, but....... maybe a need for competition

[PolarisCobra 131]

I'm not a fan of a new association. There does seem to be some corrections needed, with the current group, I would say that I don't totally understand the issues, and that I do think they are making positive moves. I would like to get to some meetings, it's just a long way for me. 

[pekabu 35]

3 hours ago, rivercat said:

Dave you do realize the board is made up of two directors ( a director as well as an assistant director)  that represent their County Clubs at the board table,  Every county in the State is represented at the board table. Each director is tasked with representing their County Culbs to the best of their ability. Yet all matters still come down to a VOTE of the board, 

 I do know that much time and effort has been put forth by the office and board as well as the NH Office of the “AG” getting to this point. The board did vet the bylaw changes as a group and reached a unanimous consensus. Are you regularly attending your County meetings? 

If a new “Association” is formed do you have a plan in place that will ALWAYS keep 25,000 members totally “happy”? 

There are many moving parts to every organization. It’s not always as “simple” as you’d like it to be or appear. 

Should the NHSA office rent, utilities, staff, postage, insurance, lobbiest, programs, gathering places, all be “FREE”?  Sure why not?  and maybe registration, law enforcement, and  grooming equipment will follow suit ,,, 

I’ll close with this,,, as a businessman ( for the last 40 years) what I have witnessed since last July as a director and snowmobiler,, the office staff and board deserve a HUGE standing ovation,,, just my opinion 

Hey Dave,  I do.  I know that our Representative has done the best they can do for our county.    The staff has turned out some great improvements this year,  Facebook, emails , and website have been greatly improved.   My problem is higher up.   I feel our club needs to support an association, but one that is there for us.   It seems those that run things at NHSA work hard at knuckling the club's under.   The Two year wait to get back on the insurance plan is a great example.  If a club doesn't buy NHSA insurance, because they want control of it, including Workers comp amounts.  What happens if they go out of business?  The club cannot get insurance from the NHSA company?  So for a year the club shuts down until they can get insurance?  The NHSA policy should be so friggen awesome that a club would be stupid to not join in.  

I do believe in an association,  I would like to support an association that I truly feel is working for the clubs. 

 

[pekabu 35]

One other item, fire the lawyer.   The whole idea of suing the AG's office was asinine.

[WINNOCTURN 60]

Any question as where NHSA is heading in an effart to seize more POWER?  Next year if the Change in Delegates goes through. Pitsburg goes from 36 Delegates to 8 ?????

 

Read  my last post in

Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade!

Edited April 8, 2018 by WINNOCTURN

[rivercat 119]

4 minutes ago, WINNOCTURN said:

Any question as where NHSA is heading in an effart to seize more POWER?  Next year if the Change in Delegates goes through. Pitsburg goes from 36 Delegates to 8 ?????

The move was made to LEVEL the vote between each and every club ,,  the other benefit would be to get an annual meeting that would fit MORE venues ,,  

EVERY club is important just as the consensus of a VOTE is important,, 

could it be AT ALL POSSIBLE that much this guidance is the cumulative EFFORTS of the numerous meeting that took place between the NHSA executive committee and the AG’s office ,,,,, ummmmmmYES !! 

[pekabu 35]

If the number of delegates is scaled down evenly across the state I don't think that is a bad thing.    My thought is if Pittsburg goes from 36 to 8,  it would seem most clubs will get 1 vote.  Is there a list of what each club would get for delegates under the new system? 

[pekabu 35]

So I looked over the current/proposed bylaws.  It appears that the larger clubs will lose some power, and the smaller clubs will get a bit more. 

 

 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

The move was made to LEVEL the vote between each and every club ,,  the other benefit would be to get an annual meeting that would fit MORE venues

 

Was the Ride on the MT. Washington an example of one of those Venues?

[RK-SXViper 144]

11 hours ago, rivercat said:

The move was made to LEVEL the vote between each and every club ,,

EVERY club is important just as the consensus of a VOTE is important,,

I totally agree with leveling the playing field. No matter if your club has 50 or 5000 members, each club still only has 10-30 members that run the club and do everything. This new delegate count gives clubs an equal voice in what happens in the NHSA.

[WINNOCTURN 60]

Has NHSA ever listed the Number of Members each Club has in a give Season. I know Pittsburg boast of over 3,000 Members. MSC averages 650. Our best year we were around 750.  That was the  year everyone had 3 to 4 Feet of Snow on their Roofs.

Would that be called the "GOOD OLD DAYS"?

[RK-SXViper 144]

24 minutes ago, WINNOCTURN said:

Has NHSA ever listed the Number of Members each Club has in a give Season. I know Pittsburg boast of over 3,000 Members. MSC averages 650. Our best year we were around 750.  That was the  year everyone had 3 to 4 Feet of Snow on their Roofs.

Would that be called the "GOOD OLD DAYS"?

George look in the annual report i think its listed somewhere in there

[nhmountainman 4]

Someone should post this kind of content on one (or all) of the NH snowmobile pages on Facebook.  Need to make the masses aware of these important issues.  You fellows have thoughtful topics here, but guessing only 20 or so people read/respond/reply.  These forums are falling off.  We need you on Facebook to reach more riders.

[jhwentworth 307]

20 hours ago, RK-SXViper said:

George look in the annual report i think its listed somewhere in there

Is the annual report available online?

[WINNOCTURN 60]

I was sitting here this afternoon think about this Post?

Reduce the Number of Delegates each Club earns from he Total Number of Members each Club has. That includes Wives, Spouse and Significant Others if a Family Membership.

My thought is the "NEW MATH" is not to lower the number of Delegates but reduce the number of HANDS you have to COUNT for each Item needing a SHOW OF HANDS.

Easier Yay or Na. Anyone "Official Counter" can discern for this process who has the most votes. As the Gavle Strikes, THE YAYS have IT!!!!!  

Edited April 23, 2018 by WINNOCTURN

[smthopr8r 24]

I am disappointed with the outcome of this meeting. As always the vote passes, the good old boys and all there 66 sheep are happy. The rest of us are supposed to be happy with the process and outcome once again. So sad. 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

5 hours ago, smthopr8r said:

I am disappointed with the outcome of this meeting. As always the vote passes, the good old boys and all there 66 sheep are happy. The rest of us are supposed to be happy with the process and outcome once again. So sad. 

To all Clubs, MEMBER OF A CLUB NOLONGER EGGIST. IT A MEMBER OF NHSA and nothing else!

CHAPTER 215-C
SNOWMOBILES

Section 215-C:39

215-C:39 Registration Fees. – The fees to be collected under this chapter are as follows:
I. Individual resident registration--$90 for each snowmobile registration upon presentation of a valid driver's license issued to a New Hampshire resident 18 years of age or older. An individual resident registering a snowmobile who provides proof, at the time of registration, that the individual is a member of an organized New Hampshire nonprofit snowmobile club which is a member of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association shall pay $60 for each snowmobile.

Based on what was said today EVERY CLUB in New Hampshire is OUT of the Business of DIRECT SALES of MENBERSHIPS!

This SHUTS DOWN your ONLINE MEMBERSHIP WEBSTITE and or your LOCAL AGENT SALES.

Even your Mailed in Application can not be completely processed before going to NHSA to get a VD Number. 

YOU have to go to NHSA to Purchase a VALIDATION NUMBER to present to the Registration Agent.

Club Members that opt out of NHSA "they" say could go on line to NHSA to "BUY" a "VD" number for $10.00. I think "THEY" forgot to add the $2.00 PROESSING FEE? 

There was a mention maid by Beth Horvath-Palmer of why F&G wanted to go with NHSA in Changing the of ISUEING and the PRICING of the "VD" Numbers.

This where it Started:

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/ohrv/notice.html  Comments from Major John Wimsatt (this Thread is still posted on the F&G Website.

During the fall of 2012, the NHFG Registration Program was audited by the Legislative Budget Assistant (LBA). In the results summary, the findings recommended improving our ability to monitor membership registrations and registration certificates.  In short, the current process of verifying and documenting proof of a paid club membership is deficient. Numerous, irreconcilable membership numbering systems were then, and still are, collected and recorded on our registration forms. This presents a problem that not only impacts my Department, but also the NHSA, DRED BOT, the clubs and the riders themselves.

 

Audit Findings:

the current process of verifying and documenting proof of a paid club membership is deficient. Numerous, irreconcilable membership numbering systems were then, and still are, collected and recorded on our registration forms. This presents a problem that not only impacts my Department, but also the NHSA, DRED BOT, the clubs and the riders themselves

No where in the 2012 Audit was any Statistical Data found to back up the Majors claims!

I do not think Registrations were entered Electronically at the time of the Audit?

It could have been a problem if Hand Written back then. I would readily admit that I can not read my on hand writing.

Anyone agreeing or disagreeing to the primary thoughts spoke on this "MATTER", Please PM me on what I have stated her on SledNH. Or add to this Tread.

If I misstated any issue please let me know and suggest how I could correct it. 

Please add YOU Thoughts to this Thread!

I Am seriously thinking on reaching out to the Attorneys General on the possibility of this be in a Restraint of Trade Issue and being a Monopoly now that it appears we are out of Business.

I might need to start a GO FUND ME Account?

WINNOCTURN!

Not responcible for any Spilling or Drumatical Mistakes!

 

New Thoughts,Just came to mind,

What about a Family Member Membership? Do you get a "VD" Number for both the Primary Member and the SECONDARY MEMBER????

IE: Husband and Wife/Spouse/Significant other/Girlfriend???

MSC has always given a Membership Card to both the Husband and Wife!

When I say Card, it is a 4"x2-1/4 Business Card.

Not a piece of PAPER you cut off of the bottom of the NHSA Vulture. When cut it's a 1/4" too long to fit in a wallet Slot. Picky, Picky, Picky, Picky!

There is also the added time it will take to put Member information in to the Cub Database the duplicate it into the NHSA Database. You would the have run one the NHSA quarries to match the

VD # and Names so you can match then in your Club Database.

Our only viable hope is to have a Strong Showing and input at the JLCAR Hearing when the date is posted. What we are working against is what is known as ADMINISTRATIVE RULE. As to my understanding this Rule has not been past on before by JLCAR.

F&G has some 1500 ADMINISTRATIVE RULE that must go through JLCAR Preapproval or First time Approval. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by WINNOCTURN

[pekabu 35]

I'm guessing that any agent that sells registrations (ie Dealers) will now have to enter all the info into the portal to get a valid ID number? 

[RK-SXViper 144]

16 hours ago, pekabu said:

I'm guessing that any agent that sells registrations (ie Dealers) will now have to enter all the info into the portal to get a valid ID number? 

The only way a dealer can access the NHSA portal is if a club gives them an admin privilidges (not likely they will take the extra time). People who want the discount are supposed to get there Validation # prior to going to the registration agent or on their phone. I'd guess that at least 60% of my clubs members come from our local registration agents, my fear is if that option is eliminated those people will just register as non club members. This will cripple if not kill a lot of clubs financially which will intern cause clubs to go under and close trails leaving holes in our trail system. The GIA program will see a huge boost but at the expense of the clubs that do all the work.

Edited April 29, 2018 by RK-SXViper