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Freedom Rider

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 A birdie has told me that the snowmobiling community in NH may see this firsthand in the near future. Coming soon.

Interesting reading below.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2016/title-xxxi/chapter-358-a/

    358-A:7 Assurance of Discontinuance. – Nothing contained in this chapter shall be construed as preventing the attorney general, in cases in which the attorney general is authorized to bring an action, from accepting in lieu thereof an assurance of discontinuance of any act or practice which violates this chapter. Such assurance may include a stipulation for the voluntary payment by the alleged violator of the costs of investigation by the attorney general, or of an amount to be held in escrow pending the outcome of an action, or of an amount to restore to any person any money or real or personal property which may have been acquired by such alleged violator, or all 3. Any such assurance of discontinuance shall be in writing and be filed with the superior court of Merrimack county. Matters thus closed may be reopened by the attorney general at any time it is in the public interest. Evidence of a violation of such assurance shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act or practice declared to be unlawful by this chapter in any action thereafter commenced by the attorney general.

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6 hours ago, Old Thumper said:

Is there an English version available?

Or a layman's term translator, for that matter? :D

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My reading of this is that in cases of a violation of the NH Consumer Protection law the NH attorney general can bring an action against the party that's allegedly  violating the law, and can later accept an "assurance of discontinuance" from that party that they will cease violating the law. The AG can demand some form of monetary compensation from the party, and can resume legal action against the party if they again violate the law.

It sounds like a way that the AG can stop what are perceived as bad business practices without proceeding to a court trial. The AG is saying that the target of the AG's action has broken the law, and the target is saying they won't do it anymore. The agreement between the two is filed with the court, and if the agreement is broken by that target it's proof that the original act was illegal. 

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4 hours ago, jhwentworth said:

My reading of this is that in cases of a violation of the NH Consumer Protection law the NH attorney general can bring an action against the party that's allegedly  violating the law, and can later accept an "assurance of discontinuance" from that party that they will cease violating the law. The AG can demand some form of monetary compensation from the party, and can resume legal action against the party if they again violate the law.

It sounds like a way that the AG can stop what are perceived as bad business practices without proceeding to a court trial. The AG is saying that the target of the AG's action has broken the law, and the target is saying they won't do it anymore. The agreement between the two is filed with the court, and if the agreement is broken by that target it's proof that the original act was illegal. 

Absolutely correct. Kinda like a plea deal without the trial.

 

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Wondering about the new agreement.   Has to go to Arbitration.  If you sign up, you have to stay on even if one part of the agreement is illegal.   Eh,  no warm or fuzzies here.

Edited by pekabu

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In June of 2015 I made a presentation to the board about these issues.  I told them they could not force clubs to have the same membership fee (price fixing) and also told them they could not force individual club members to join NHSA (it had to be a choice).  They took a vote at that meeting to move ahead regardless of the fact that they would be breaking the law.  At that point, I gave up trying to change anyone's mind in NHSA but I was successful in working with NHOHVA to make sure they redid their bylaws so they would not be breaking any laws. 

I have not been a member of NHSA since 2016 and will not join in the future unless things change.  I believe they are only interested in their own self-preservation and not at all interested in helping the clubs to survive.  I think the entire organization needs to be downsized and their budget cut.  I also think the system of county representation should be scrapped and each club should have a voice in what NHSA is working on.  This would necessitate getting rid of monthly meetings at NHSA headquarters and holding quarterly meetings in a larger location.  It should be a back-to-basics agenda with the sole focus of working on things that help the clubs. 

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On 1/9/2018 at 7:30 PM, Freedom Rider said:
 

 A birdie has told me that the snowmobiling community in NH may see this firsthand in the near future. Coming soon.

Interesting reading below.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2016/title-xxxi/chapter-358-a/

    358-A:7 Assurance of Discontinuance. – Nothing contained in this chapter shall be construed as preventing the attorney general, in cases in which the attorney general is authorized to bring an action, from accepting in lieu thereof an assurance of discontinuance of any act or practice which violates this chapter. Such assurance may include a stipulation for the voluntary payment by the alleged violator of the costs of investigation by the attorney general, or of an amount to be held in escrow pending the outcome of an action, or of an amount to restore to any person any money or real or personal property which may have been acquired by such alleged violator, or all 3. Any such assurance of discontinuance shall be in writing and be filed with the superior court of Merrimack county. Matters thus closed may be reopened by the attorney general at any time it is in the public interest. Evidence of a violation of such assurance shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act or practice declared to be unlawful by this chapter in any action thereafter commenced by the attorney general.

 

 

YOU ALL NEED TO READ THIS!

It is what the AG went after NHSA for!

Things NHSA has too work on,
Additionally, in the very near future, the Association will address the remaining stipulations set forth in the agreement through methods such as enhancing the current business plan, expanding the current standards of operating procedures, and proposing a restructure of the bylaws.
 
Not a good critique of NHSA?

 

 

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Just a note to Freedom Rider, you called this thing right, so good on you. When you're wrong you get dumped on, so when you're right you should get an attaboy.

Just remember, we're waiting for you to screw up!

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9 minutes ago, jhwentworth said:

Just a note to Freedom Rider, you called this thing right, so good on you. When you're wrong you get dumped on, so when you're right you should get an attaboy.

Just remember, we're waiting for you to screw up!

Agreed. Jeff along with Larry, Winnocturn and several others have called this debacle correctly for a number of years, and been subject to much scorn here and elsewhere. In the end they were right, and both had offered constructive criticism and suggestions to fix this way before it spun so far out of control. 

Hat’s off to you guys...I would have loved to be a fly on the wall at one or two past president’s houses when the AG ruling was issued. I hope the pucker factor lingers,

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Thanks for the acknowledgement skip, but it already appears that NHSA is breaking the law again.  If you check the Online Membership User Agreement it says:

The Club gives permission for NHSA to retain $10 per club membership transaction from the monies
received on behalf of club from Online Membership Sales.
 
This is in direct violation of item 24 in the Assurance of Discontinuance.
 
Again its all about NHSA extracting money from the clubs instead of helping the clubs to survive.  I just don't get their thought process.

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2 hours ago, ljgomes said:

Thanks for the acknowledgement skip, but it already appears that NHSA is breaking the law again.  If you check the Online Membership User Agreement it says:

The Club gives permission for NHSA to retain $10 per club membership transaction from the monies
received on behalf of club from Online Membership Sales.
 
This is in direct violation of item 24 in the Assurance of Discontinuance.
 
Again its all about NHSA extracting money from the clubs instead of helping the clubs to survive.  I just don't get their thought process.

That coupled with some comments made by at least one County director on-line shows, that early on, it looks like the message from the AG isn't getting heard appropriately. I have no problem filing a complaint if it continues....and letting anyone know (if they insists) who it is. Let's just hope that after those that have had their peckers stepped on recover from the pain, common sense prevails and they don't bring on yet more legal troubles for the Association!

Edited by Skip

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3 hours ago, ljgomes said:

Thanks for the acknowledgement skip, but it already appears that NHSA is breaking the law again.  If you check the Online Membership User Agreement it says:

The Club gives permission for NHSA to retain $10 per club membership transaction from the monies
received on behalf of club from Online Membership Sales.
 
This is in direct violation of item 24 in the Assurance of Discontinuance.
 
Again its all about NHSA extracting money from the clubs instead of helping the clubs to survive.  I just don't get their thought process.

I would consider this to be reasonable IF it was spelled out that, the NHSA Membership Portal is only intended for those who want to join the NHSA along with their club membership.  Those who want to join a club ONLY can just do so through the club website, or in person with a club agent.  Personally, I prefer to join a club only, and I would not expect to be able to process my club only membership through the NHSA Portal.  I did it directly with the club I chose to join.

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24 minutes ago, Old Thumper said:

I would consider this to be reasonable IF it was spelled out that, the NHSA Membership Portal is only intended for those who want to join the NHSA along with their club membership.  Those who want to join a club ONLY can just do so through the club website, or in person with a club agent.  Personally, I prefer to join a club only, and I would not expect to be able to process my club only membership through the NHSA Portal.  I did it directly with the club I chose to join.

Agreed, I deal directly with the my club as well. I think that while the online portal serves a purpose, I would want my Club to encourage contact and club membership directly instead of through a third party. Very important for clubs operating on the margin....

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  This has been bothering me  since yesterday!         

   NHSA Online Memberships Agreement

          Online Memberships to what the Club or NHSA?

          Where does the $10.00 Go? Is a Transaction Fee? Or is a NHSA Membership Fee?

          Do you have to JOIN NHSA when you use the “NHSA” Portal. It’s not like you are                

             Actually joining on an Club Website.  

Read  More of my Ramblings on this Matter (could not paste all)

NHSA Online Memberships Agreement.doc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by WINNOCTURN
OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, Skip said:

Agreed, I deal directly with the my club as well. I think that while the online portal serves a purpose, I would want my Club to encourage contact and club membership directly instead of through a third party. Very important for clubs operating on the margin....

Skip and All,

I AM IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING MEMBERSHIPS FOR MY CLUB!

We use a Membership Mail out to all of the Past Years Members, 3 Membership Agents and our own Membership Webpage! I am available day and night.

MSC Membership Page

http://moultonborosmc.org/online-club-membership/

Anyone looking for an exciting job? There may be a position available early next Season. 

Edited by WINNOCTURN

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4 hours ago, WINNOCTURN said:

Skip and All,

I AM IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING MEMBERSHIPS FOR MY CLUB!

We use a Membership Mail out to all of the Past Years Members, 3 Membership Agents and our own Membership Webpage! I am available day and night.

MSC Membership Page

http://moultonborosmc.org/online-club-membership/

Anyone looking for an exciting job? There may be a position available early next Season. 

Your membership form states you have to join the NHSA .

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13 minutes ago, dirt dummy said:

Your membership form states you have to join the NHSA .

I heard a rumor that tha Association has Chinese hackers on retention...maybe George’s form has been compromised??????

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4 hours ago, dirt dummy said:

 

Your membership form states you have to join the NHSA .

After reading the AG's findings we are in the process of Changing it. The verbiage probably goes back 20 years long before I took over the Membership position.

It probably comes from a time when there were less problems at NHSA. A more Supportive Time.

I have been looking to make a break in the linkage to NHSA and make it an optional choice for some time. Now after reading all of the documents related to the AG's findings I will have no problem making the CHANGE!

 

Did you check out any other clubs application? I feel you should follow thru and make them aware of the problem.

 

As you know I am a avid NHSA Hater or is that Trump? No, I did vote for him yah.

Do you remember the trouble I got Gail in some maybe 20 years ago over the Stalling of getting the LRCT to reopen the Castle Trial?

I am getting off point.

 

Night, Night Time! 

 

 

 

Edited by WINNOCTURN

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