Letter from respected Past County Director

[Freedom Rider 209]

  Letter to Directors edited name.docx

 

I edited out his name and contact info fro his privacy. Permission was granted to post this letter. It was sent to ALL NHSA Directors and Assistant Directors. Curious how it was received by the "Head Table" at last weeks Board meeting. Probably resulted in executive session for discussion or it was brushed off.

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Freedom Rider

[ckf 297]

I just converted the letter to PDF format to make it easier for members to open.

Letter to NHSA.pdf

[Freedom Rider 209]

Thank you John! My PDFwriter would not allow me to as it was written by someone else.

[ckf 297]

7 minutes ago, Freedom Rider said:

Thank you John! My PDFwriter would not allow me to as it was written by someone else.

There are online services that do it for free

[Freedom Rider 209]

Could you please send me a link? I tried a couple but they wanted a credit card for the trail period.

[ckf 297]

5 minutes ago, Freedom Rider said:

Could you please send me a link? I tried a couple but they wanted a credit card for the trail period.

https://www.freepdfconvert.com/

[Freedom Rider 209]

Thank you very much.

[Old Thumper 150]

31 minutes ago, ckf said:

There are online services that do it for free

MS Word will do it - When you have the .docx file open, go to the "File" tab then select "Save As", then after selecting a destination folder use the drop down list of file types...

Thanks for sharing the info FR

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Old Thumper

[RK-SXViper 144]

I want to clarify one paragraph in this letter.

" Six months or so ago I asked my county director, assistant and another county director to ask a question for me, dissolution of funds, what happens to the money if the NHSA fails? They never asked the question because they did not want to be the bad guys. They wanted to be liked by everyone, and they knew that they would be blasted for asking such a question and that the NHSA would never fail."

This question was not asked because we had other more important issues to deal with and didn't feel like fueling someones personal agenda! I DON'T care if I'm liked or not, and making that statement about a couple directors is just plain IGNORANT! And for the record the next time this individual wants a letter like this read to the board he needs to grow a PAIR and read it to them himself!!

[Patriot 33]

To anyone that has no knowledge of anything in NHSA or Rockingham County, that was unreadable. Seriously, I read it twice and have no idea the message that the person was trying to convey, and to whom they were trying to convey it to. 

Oh wait, I just read it a third time. I think I got the jist of it...NHSA sucks, amirite?

[jhwentworth 307]

16 hours ago, Patriot said:

To anyone that has no knowledge of anything in NHSA or Rockingham County, that was unreadable. Seriously, I read it twice and have no idea the message that the person was trying to convey, and to whom they were trying to convey it to. 

Oh wait, I just read it a third time. I think I got the jist of it...NHSA sucks, amirite?

On one level I agree the “NHSA sucks, amirite?” comment has some truth. I think the author of this letter has a very negative opinion of the current NHSA management, and makes that very clear in his letter.

I don’t know the letter author’s motive or intent in writing, and now releasing, this letter, nor do I have any insider information on NHSA or the happenings in Rockingham County. I can read plain English with some degree of understanding, and this letter is very understandable. Maybe not in the references to what happened in 2006, I’d have to have been following NHSA politics much more closely than I have. Still, his/her point that what’s called the “Executive Board” has taken over complete control of NHSA and has pushed the county directors into being a rubber stamp for them is made plainly and clearly. Whether that point is true is another question, and there are differing opinions out there.

A reading of the NHSA bylaws would seem to say that there is one Board of Directors consisting of the five executive officers, the county directors, and one contributor/dealer director. The NHSA President leads all Board meetings and appoints any needed committees. The Executive Officers on the board include the President, the Vice-President, the Treasurer, the Secretary, and the immediate past President. There’s an Advisory Board made up of past presidents (and some others if needed) who serve a consulting role for the executive officers and the Board of Directors.

The bylaws do seem to be pretty clear as to who manages the NHSA and the duties of the officers and the board.

“The Association shall be governed by a Board of Directors. Executive Officers upon election shall be members of the Board of Directors. It shall be the duty of the Board of Directors to carry out the wishes of the majority of the Membership.”

The question raised by this letter seems to be “is the NHSA currently being operated in a manner consistent with the bylaws ?”

 

It seems the original target for this letter was an “insider” audience that understands the inner workings of the NHSA. Now this letter is “out in the wild”, and a general audience needs to do some research to understand some of the references. But, a plain English reading makes clear that the author believes that current NHSA management has gone off the tracks, and I think that’s a fair subject for debate.

 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

Between THE LETTER and Rob's clarification, some of the underlying issues that have necessitated  the 2 Complaint being filed with the Attorneys Generals Office have been made clear

If any one knows of where a copy of the backdoor agreement is hidden the gave the NHSA the ability to OFFER a Discount Registration, in this case, A "MEMBERSHIP VOUCHER" I would like to see it as I have yet to see the Passage in the RAS that gives them that ability. I my "humble opinion" it is only the "CLUBS" that have that ability.

I sent a letter to Major John Wimsatt over a year ago on this subject, He would not comment on my letter because of the Pending 2 Consumer Complaints. We need to get this issue out of the hands of NHSA.

 

.  

Edited August 6, 2017 by WINNOCTURN

[John Mercier 36]

My understanding is the NHSA is acting as a clearinghouse for local clubs that want the option.

Not really much different then when a dealer offers to act as a clearinghouse for local clubs... except that they have digitized the action on an internet portal.

 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

1 hour ago, John Mercier said:

My understanding is the NHSA is acting as a clearinghouse for local clubs that want the option.

Not really much different then when a dealer offers to act as a clearinghouse for local clubs... except that they have digitized the action on an internet portal.

 

John,

Could you give me a count of the number of Members that have actually joined through NHSA Membership Website.

Here is a staring point, there were, for a rounding point, 19,000 Members.

Our Club, MSC, had 11 out of 724 Members. There are other club I that have similar numbers.

We launched our own Online Membership Webpage last season with a good initial result. I have already contacted those 11 Members and suggested they us the Club website to join our Club this SESAON.  

 

"except that they have digitized the action on an internet portal"  

DIGITIZED? IT'S MY 10 DIGITS and THE TEN DIGITS OF ANOTHER 108 PEOPLE!

Do you know WHO maintains this Database? NOT NHSA!

It is ENTERED and MAINTAINED by the 109 PEOPLE responsible for Club Memberships. "They" now have 2 Databases to Maintain, Their Club's and NHSA's.

Before the "ONLINE" Database was created, NHSA Maintain the Membership Database in basically an Excel Spread Sheet. The Clubs would simply e-mail a copy of NEW Members each week and they would be added to the NHSA DATBASE.

Now the responsibility has been placed on the Clubs if a Member wants a copy of the SnoTraveler.  

Sorry if I am repeating myself again, but I had to enter 1,448 Membership and I only got paid for the first 724.

You get a batch of Membership, 250, you need to process ASAP, do you enter them in the NHSA Database first or your Clubs?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by WINNOCTURN

[John Mercier 36]

Digitized simply means that they are not using a paper process.

What you are arguing is that your club should not have to do both... 

But for Fish and Game to have a centralized database that meets the LBA standards, they are going to have to work that one out.

 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

2 hours ago, John Mercier said:

Digitized simply means that they are not using a paper process.

What you are arguing is that your club should not have to do both... 

But for Fish and Game to have a centralized database that meets the LBA standards, they are going to have to work that one out.

 

John,

Yes we have to do both our Database and NHSA's Database. Who do you think puts the Data in?

Fish and Game or any other State Agency has link to this NHSA Database. That was thrown out  as one on the reason NHSA needed this on line Database. There is no Branch of the State of New Hampshire that would allow outside data to be swapped into their Data System. Talk about Computer SECURITY. I was told by someone involved with Data Computer Security this, in polite terms, would NEVER HAPPEN!  

Before the NHSA's Online Database, it was just Transferring data from one Excel spreadsheet to another. Phyllis gave us a preferred layout of what data she wanted and how the Columns were to be placed.  

Here it is KISS!

The NHSA ID Number was from the NHSA Membership Cards we used to get before the Vulture Certificates, we have to print out and e-mail or send by snail mail. I have blanked out bitts of data to protect the identities of the Member used in this Spreadsheet. This was sent to Phyllis. F/S Family/Single.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by WINNOCTURN

[PolarisCobra 132]

It seems clear to me that the NHSA has lost it's way to some degree. Although I applaud the support of the camp, I think there is too much time spent fundraising for it, and I don't see enough about the organization doing things to support the sport, at least from what I can see in the Snow Traveller. 

I understand the issue that the BOT has (or is it Fish and Game, I get confused) with insuring that the registration discount only goes to those who have legitimately joined a club, and that the portal is a way to consolidate all the clubs membership lists, and provides a way to audit the memberships, which is a fair and reasonable requirement. 

I like the idea of being able to join the club I want to from a single website, I think it is convenient. I can see that the compromise of normalizing membership fees makes sense. Living in MA, was easy and convenient to join my club through the website last year, I am disappointed to see it shut down. 

I am also OK with joining the NHSA as a part of the deal, although I have some concerns that the money isn't always used to support the sport. It's really hard to tell by what is posted in the Snow Traveller how the NHSA budget works, and I just can't see myself driving the 100+ miles to Tilton to ask to see the accounting info and review it there, if they would even give it to me.  (I can donate to the camp if I choose, and would seriously consider clicking on a separate checkbox to send them $10 when I join the NHSA, I like that option because it is transparent). 

 

I think the thing that concerns me most in the letter is in a paragraph near the end:

If you have had enough and are about to throw your hands in the air but still love the sport of snowmobiling, there is the Granite State Snowmobile Association (GSSA). Although I will admit that they are moving at a snails pace and you only hear tidbits now and then. You can probably guess which office has there bylaws and should be approving them any day.

I think another competing organization would be a mistake, we need to stick together. Fragmentation will cause distractions, and funnel money and focus away from improving the sport.  I think it's more critical to refocus the NHSA on where it's core mission. 

[jhwentworth 307]

Hi PolarisCobra,

Don't be embarrassed about getting confused about the roles the various players in this game take. For many years NH F&G has owned the registration process, law enforcement, search & rescue, and safety education. The Bureau of Trails does trails of many types. Several years ago the accounting arm of the NH legislature (the Legislative Budget Assistant or LBA) told F&G they needed to provide an audit trail for the public revenues from the registrations, which included the granting of discounts to NHSA affiliated clubs' members. The NHSA created the database of club memberships.The repercussions of that process are still continuing. The BoT has been moved to another state agency, but, I think, their mission remains the same. Information on this move hasn't been updated on agency web sites. 

As for the Granite State Snowmobile Association, I think I'm in the majority in knowing nothing about them. More significantly, Almighty Google doesn't know anything about them, and that means the GSSA is well underground. To replicate the current club infrastructure would be difficult, and under current state law a club that defected from the NHSA wouldn't be able to offer their members the registration discount.

I'm waiting for a public reaction to the announced termination of the online club membership database from NH F&G. If if does go missing, F&G will have to come up with another way to provide that audit trail the LBA demanded. The attraction of the current club membership process to F&G is that NHSA created and maintains the database and the clubs provide data input. F&G gets the final product.

George (Winnocturn) has stated the issues some clubs have with the online database, but many individual members, especially non-residents, find it convenient.

Finally, in response to your comment that " I think it's more critical to refocus the NHSA on where it's core mission", I think that before we try that we should decide what that core mission is.

The original mission was:

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
A. To promote and foster snowmobiling as a sport and recreation for its members.
B. To aid and guide in the enacting of sensible legislation governing snow traveling
vehicles and related activities.
C. To exchange ideas, trail information, group activities and information pertinent to the
welfare of snowmobiling.
D. To create and maintain, mark and map a system of trails for the use of snowmobiles.
E. To educate its members on good conduct, sportsmanship, safety and conservation
practices.
F. To publish the newsletter, “Sno-Traveler,” of which a copy of each issue shall be sent
to each member of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association (NHSA).
G. To promote snowmobile tourism in New Hampshire.

You can do, or not do, a lot of things under that mission statement.

What's your #1 priority in the above list? #2? #3?

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by jhwentworth

[rneal55555 12]

The online Membership Portal that feeds the auditable database is still up and running all that has been shutdown is ability of an individual to join a club through NHSA's system.

 

When went online two years ago I just stopped keeping my own separate Database.  Once a week or so through the season  I just export the Club Membership report as a CSV file Which comes out basically as an Excel file at any rate I import that in to Mailchimp which is what I use for Club Email notices.  I can process an renewal in less than a minute and update my email list in about 5 minutes once a week. 

 

[jhwentworth 307]

28 minutes ago, rneal55555 said:

The online Membership Portal that feeds the auditable database is still up and running all that has been shutdown is ability of an individual to join a club through NHSA's system.

 

When went online two years ago I just stopped keeping my own separate Database.  Once a week or so through the season  I just export the Club Membership report as a CSV file Which comes out basically as an Excel file at any rate I import that in to Mailchimp which is what I use for Club Email notices.  I can process an renewal in less than a minute and update my email list in about 5 minutes once a week. 

 

Thanks for the correction. How does simply removing public access to the online membership portal resolve the issue of standard membership pricing? Is it that with the individual members not involved with the portal the process is only between the NHSA and the clubs?

[RK-SXViper 144]

25 minutes ago, jhwentworth said:

Thanks for the correction. How does simply removing public access to the online membership portal resolve the issue of standard membership pricing? Is it that with the individual members not involved with the portal the process is only between the NHSA and the clubs?

A club can charge whatever they want for a membership price, but the online portal price for each club had to be the same. Join a club on line $35, show up at their meeting and join for $20. The only part of the portal that was shut down was the general public sales piece, the club data entry part is still there for clubs to enter memberships.

[jhwentworth 307]

1 hour ago, RK-SXViper said:

A club can charge whatever they want for a membership price, but the online portal price for each club had to be the same. Join a club on line $35, show up at their meeting and join for $20. The only part of the portal that was shut down was the general public sales piece, the club data entry part is still there for clubs to enter memberships.

Thank you.

[WINNOCTURN 60]

4 hours ago, rneal55555 said:

The online Membership Portal that feeds the auditable database is still up and running all that has been shutdown is ability of an individual to join a club through NHSA's system.

 

When went online two years ago I just stopped keeping my own separate Database.  Once a week or so through the season  I just export the Club Membership report as a CSV file Which comes out basically as an Excel file at any rate I import that in to Mailchimp which is what I use for Club Email notices.  I can process an renewal in less than a minute and update my email list in about 5 minutes once a week. 

 

rneal55555

The online Membership Portal that feeds the auditable database is still up and running all that has been shutdown is ability of an individual to join a club through NHSA's system.

The NHSA Website is open till August 13th. As of 10 minutes ago (7:11 PM - 8/7/17) someone can go in and Join.

John Mercier

But for Fish and Game to have a centralized database that meets the LBA standards, they are going to have to work that one out.

Please point the right direction on what an AUDITABLE DATABASE? Do you mean that FISH and GAME, Bureau of Trails anyone else in the State that would like to have access to this information could use the NHSA database to see who is legitimately qualified for a Registration Discount. Are we talking a cross check to the Registration processed by Certified Registration Agents through NHSA?

 

If I am correct that there are a NUMBER of CLUBS that are AFILIATED with NHSA that now offer an option to be a MEMBER OF A CLUB and not NHSA. These "Club Members" are still entitled to a discounted Snowmobile REGISTRATION(S). This could mean the NHSA could be substantially off in it's count to verify the Registration?

I can site a Club that has only 18% of their Members "Checking the NHSA Box. They do have a substantial number of Members.

 

 

Got to GO, WATERS' WORLD IS ON IN 10 minutes! Anybody know where O'Riley is?

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by WINNOCTURN

[jhwentworth 307]

9 minutes ago, WINNOCTURN said:

I can site a Club that has only 18% of their Members "Checking the NHSA Box. They do have a substantial number of Members.

 

So, does this mean that a club can have members that the NHSA doesn't know about and won't appear in the NHSA database?

 

[WINNOCTURN 60]

11 hours ago, jhwentworth said:

So, does this mean that a club can have members that the NHSA doesn't know about and won't appear in the NHSA database?

 

John,

 

Yes that is what I mean. There is no mandatory Membership in NHSA unless you use the NHSA Membership website to join a Club!

MSC dues are $35.00,  $25 to JOIN THE CLUB and $10 to join NHSA. No option provided. I am work to have NHSA optional.

 

YOU ONLY have to be a Member of CLUB that is affiliated with NHSA to qualify for the $30.00 Registration Discount.

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by WINNOCTURN