Freedom Rider

Registration Increase

46 posts in this topic

With the push being led by the NHSA for a registration increase to a fee of $200.00 what are your thoughts?

How will effect your snowmobiling?

Will you continue to register in NH? Will you go to a neighboring state? Will you register less snowmobiles?

Do you feel that upping the fee's will help your club in it's day to day operations? Do you feel this will help improve the trails?

When is enough, enough? Do you feel it will drive many people and family's from the sport? Or more importantly drive people away from the state?

Some very important issues at stake and being pushed by a group with poor leadership and the inability to make a good decision.

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I think it will result in reduced registrations for sure. Some will ride in Maine instead. Some will risk it, and ride without a registration. 

It will be particularly hard for a non-resident who doesn't put on very many miles. With an option that is under $50 for four days of riding in Maine,  lots of people are likely to go that way. 

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2 hours ago, Freedom Rider said:

With the push being led by the NHSA for a registration increase to a fee of $200.00 what are your thoughts?

How will effect your snowmobiling?

Will you continue to register in NH? Will you go to a neighboring state? Will you register less snowmobiles?

Do you feel that upping the fee's will help your club in it's day to day operations? Do you feel this will help improve the trails?

When is enough, enough? Do you feel it will drive many people and family's from the sport? Or more importantly drive people away from the state?

Some very important issues at stake and being pushed by a group with poor leadership and the inability to make a good decision.

Is this a joke?  Who in their right mind would propose something like this?  We need to be in the ball park of what is being charged in other states or we will lose significant market share.  This has to be someones sick idea of a Cinco de Mayo prank.

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16 minutes ago, ljgomes said:

Is this a joke?  Who in their right mind would propose something like this?  We need to be in the ball park of what is being charged in other states or we will lose significant market share.  This has to be someones sick idea of a Cinco de Mayo prank.

Same question here....

Has this been verified Jeff? Are any of our members here from Strafford County, and may have been at the meeting where this topic was discussed?

And if it is true, the question begs to be asked....is the NHSA looking for a corresponding increase in their annual membership dues as well?

Thanks Jeff.....

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Skip said:

Same question here....

Has this been verified Jeff? Are any of our members here from Strafford County, and may have been at the meeting where this topic was discussed?

And if it is true, the question begs to be asked....is the NHSA looking for a corresponding increase in their annual membership dues as well?

Thanks Jeff.....

 

 

 

.It was discussed at length at NHSA April Board meeting. Charlie Kurtz of the

Advisory Board presented it.If you join the NHSA you would get $100.00 discount.

Edited by Freedom Rider
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Beautiful, I love discounts!

Would you get a $200 discount if you joined twice?

51 minutes ago, Freedom Rider said:

If you join the NHSA you would get $100.00 discount.

 

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Just another attempt by the NHSA to increase their revenue by essentially forcing everyone that registers to become a member of the organization.

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48 minutes ago, jhwentworth said:

Beautiful, I love discounts!

Would you get a $200 discount if you joined twice?

 

Kind of reminds me of what Sears is doing down here, as a last gasp before they most likely close up in Newington. They take a pair of Dickies work jeans, mark them up about 150% to $60.00 a pair, then sell them for 50% off at 29.99....while you can buy the same pair every day down the street at Wally World for $23 bucks.

Wouldnt it be amazing if the NHSA  spent as much time on improving the quality and image of the organization, to maintain and grow membership, instead of always delving into snake oil tactic?

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Posted (edited)

We need to get NHSA out of The Registration Discount Business!

We need to amend the present RSA to say you must be a Member of a Nonprofit Snowmobile Club, Registered with The Attorney Generals Office or which ever branch of state Government is appropriate to cover the Discounts.

I wrote Major Wimsatt a letter several months ago question NHSA ability to SELL or OFFER Registration Discounts based on how the present RSA is worded. It is my position the ability to offer the Discount is the Privileged, "not Write" of a "CLUB", not an association!

You have to be a member of a "CLUB" that is a member of NHSA. NHSA has added to this you must be an individual Member of NHSA along with being a Member of a Club when you join a Club through the NHSA/CLUB Membership website.

I do not know of any "ADMINISTRATIVE Rule" that may have been set up to give NHSA the ability to offer Registration Discounts.  

Read the RSA and tell me if i am wrong in MY way of thinking on this issue.

Section 215-C:39

    215-C:39 Registration Fees. – The fees to be collected under this chapter are as follows:

 
    I. Individual resident registration--$90 for each snowmobile registration upon presentation of a valid driver's license issued to a New Hampshire resident 18 years of age or older. An individual resident registering a snowmobile who provides proof, at the time of registration, that the individual is a member of an organized New Hampshire nonprofit SNOWMOBILE CLUB which is a member of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association shall pay $60 for each snowmobile.

  No where in the RSA does it say the CLUB MEMBER needs to be a Member of NHSA!

We need to change the WORDING

Skip,

How can we do this and how FAST. This needs to be done irregardless of the outcome of the pending "Consumer Complaints now in front of the Attorney General!  

 

Part 2 UPDATE

I just noticed the phrase about a Club being in "GOOD STANDING" with NHSA is not in the RSA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by WINNOCTURN

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I think the answer may be painful to some, but obvious to all that want to see this corruption and dishonesty ended regarding "mandatory" membership.

Get rid of the discount all together. One tier rate for NH residents, another tier for out of staters and several tiers of one to maybe four or five day passes.

The NHSA goes back to its roots and sells itself to maintain membership (and existence) by changing its business model, offering group insurance discounts and still supporting charities. This would require a significant downsizing of the personnel in the current office, perhaps even closing it. With both full time employees gone, what better time than now?

The Grass Drags, or some form of it, could be picked up and run by an interested County or Club. The same with the Easter Seals Ride In. 

The NHSA could easily find a restaraunt or other venue to hold monthly meetings, or take the whole zoo on the road county meeting by county meeting. Also, by letting go of the Grass Drags and Ride In, the NHSA could easily survive with one or two part time personnel that could work remotely from a home office.

i believe all of the above is inevitable. Wouldn't it be great if the organization would bite the bullet and get ahead of the curve?

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Until they make it hurt to be unregistered, then I see more folks taking that chance. I will not register my FIVE sleds....I will only do two, So they'd be out that. 

 

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6 hours ago, Freedom Rider said:

.It was discussed at length at NHSA April Board meeting. Charlie Kurtz of the

Advisory Board presented it.If you join the NHSA you would get $100.00 discount.

Jeff,

Wouldn't this FLY in the face of the wording in the RSA where you join A CLUB not NHSA? So would not the RSA need to be changed? If that be the case could we not change it remove NHSA altogether as I stated in my prior Post????

Are Charlie and the GANG going to have their own little Space on the Mount Sunday? I get this feeling every time I see "THEM" sitting together at meetings.

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You mean Roger and the Hasbeens

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Obviously something needs to be done to address the funding shortfall that has happened due to registration numbers dropping. I don't see the sport growing much over the next several years due to the rising cost of snowmobiles. I think there needs to be a balance of a small registration increase and clubs cutting back on their grooming schedule. If registration numbers are down, so is the traffic on the trails.

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That fee would help people decide to visit Maine.

How would the proposed $200 registration be distributed?

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8 hours ago, ckf said:

Obviously something needs to be done to address the funding shortfall that has happened due to registration numbers dropping. I don't see the sport growing much over the next several years due to the rising cost of snowmobiles. I think there needs to be a balance of a small registration increase and clubs cutting back on their grooming schedule. If registration numbers are down, so is the traffic on the trails.

The "funding shortfall" has been worsened by weather and our stated goal of a "state-wide" trail system. There's nothing we can do about the weather, but should we look at how we distribute our resources? By supporting trails from Salem to Pittsburg the state, the NHSA, and the clubs drew support from sled riders across the state. Many of those riders used their local trails as well as taking trips to the north country. As someone who rides locally, I can say that I don't see many riders out locally now even when we have good conditions. Most of the "serious" riders head north to find consistently good trails. It's awfully hard to sell a kid on Canobie Lake Park after they've been to Disneyland.

Due to the weather and the public's desire to ride the best trails we've ended up with a large southern NH trail system that seems to get little use. Another issue is a lack of hard data on where people ride. It's tough to allocate resources effectively when you don't know where the consumers of those resources are located. Our current allocation method is to spread the resources everywhere and and hope that somebody uses them. With limited resources we need to make better use of what we have.

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53 minutes ago, jhwentworth said:

Our current allocation method is to spread the resources everywhere and and hope that somebody uses them. With limited resources we need to make better use of what we have.

There hasn't been a dime spent on large grooming equipment in Rockingham county in 10 to 15 years. I've got clubs that would die to have Coos counties used groomers, the 70's and 80's called they want ours back! Plus I will tell you that when we have good snow there are a lot of people out riding the trails down here

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As always, well said John.

Another area that could be tightened up considerably, introduce accountability and eliminate paperwork: GPS tracking of all authorized grooming assets with reimbursement based on type of machine/mileage.

Its 2017 folks. I manage a large government fleet via a Verizon system. It's cheap, easy to install and reduces maintenance costs and improper use. 

Like many of you here, I've been around the sport long enough to know how easy it is to cheat the current system based on highly inaccurate hour meters (idling groomers anyone?) and know that the chance of having Bureau of Trails audit your club is akin to winning the Megabucks.

It is sad that there are virtually limitless possibilies to improve the sport, changes that should be led by our representatives in Tilton. Sadly, the only "change" that the NHSA is interested in is what is left in our pockets! 

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Posted (edited)

I will sell all sleds and never support anything to do with snowmobiling in NH ever again.That is just frikkin STUPID....Time for a bigger boat

 

 

Edited by Yamiblue
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1 hour ago, RK-SXViper said:

There hasn't been a dime spent on large grooming equipment in Rockingham county in 10 to 15 years. I've got clubs that would die to have Coos counties used groomers, the 70's and 80's called they want ours back! Plus I will tell you that when we have good snow there are a lot of people out riding the trails down here

I should have been more clear about my use of the term "southern NH". I consider southern NH to be south of Plymouth/Lakes Region. I live in Loudon, and I consider that to be southern NH. Many of the clubs in my area have modern large groomers. I've seen the Sno Slickers BR 180 but don't know how old it is.

I do think that my point about a lack of accurate information on trail usage is valid, at least for most clubs. Does your club do any sort of vehicle traffic counts on your trails?

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I don't know about traffic counts. We do however have plenty of traffic on the trails down here when there is snow. The the Snow Slickers have 3 groomers and run the crap out of all of them. $200 registrations ,I'll just ride in Maine. 

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Years ago, I'm going back to when Paul Gray was in charge of trails bureau, they had a sled counter setup where you enter White Lake State Park across from Canoe King. At the time it was the busiest road crossing in the state. It was also Corridor 15 at the time and was the way you accessed the Castle Trails. If they did snowmobile traffic counts back then, they could certainly do them today.

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Paul Gray ran a tight ship...

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28 minutes ago, ckf said:

Years ago, I'm going back to when Paul Gray was in charge of trails bureau, they had a sled counter setup where you enter White Lake State Park across from Canoe King. At the time it was the busiest road crossing in the state. It was also Corridor 15 at the time and was the way you accessed the Castle Trails. If they did snowmobile traffic counts back then, they could certainly do them today.

You mean something like this?

The infrared version seems like it would work pretty well for sleds

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1 hour ago, jhwentworth said:

You mean something like this?

The infrared version seems like it would work pretty well for sleds

John if they set up those in your neck of the woods they would only pick up black flies. The lack of local traffic is also a byproduct of the lack of maintenance by the clubs.We all know how a couple of trail systems in your area get very little if none at all, signage and grooming. Brand new groomer that has not even been used in 2 years.

I think that you are on the right path with the need for accountability.If clubs have snow they should groom the same amout of hours % wise as their neighboring clubs. This season for example. There were maybe 2 weeks of 8 inches or more (minimum amount for grooming reimbursement) in the area. If clubs north, east, south, and west groomed say 20% of the budgeted hours, then the clubs in between only used 2%. The clubs not grooming as the surrounding clubs should have allocated hours cut. Those allocated hours are dedicated funds. If they are no used then no else can use them either. Same said for RTP Grants.When clubs get Grants then fail to fulfill grant the money is lost, when it could have been used elsewhere.

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