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skully

Figured I would re-post this cus so many people riding BRV

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There's been a trend towards long-track "crossover" sleds that provide some of the off-trail capability of the mountain sleds. You'd think that with the sledding public's demand for "smooth, wide, and fast" groomed trails that there wouldn't be a need for these machines.



Here's Snogoer's description of the target market of Ski Doo's offering:


"Ski-Doo designed its Renegade Backcountry X machines for very experienced riders who especially likely to ride through fresh snow and explore hidden swamps and forests. Suspensions are calibrated for aggressive, fast riding, and deep track lugs and new Pilot DS 2 skis provide excellent flotation and control in deep snow. Off-trail ergonomics are enhanced with a center grab strap on top of tall handlebars.".



The manufacturers build products that they believe will sell. They must believe that the public wants more off-trail capability. Is that true?



Another thing to consider is what an 800cc, 160+hp, sled with a 1.75" track lug can do to a freshly groomed trail. Yes, it's still the operator that decides the throttle pressure, but these sleds sure do make it easy to tear things up.



Just seems odd to me; the clubs responded to public demand for smoother, wider, trails, and now there's increased interest in off-trail sleds.



How do you think these crossover sleds are being used?


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There's been a trend towards long-track "crossover" sleds that provide some of the off-trail capability of the mountain sleds. You'd think that with the sledding public's demand for "smooth, wide, and fast" groomed trails that there wouldn't be a need for these machines.

Here's Snogoer's description of the target market of Ski Doo's offering:

"Ski-Doo designed its Renegade Backcountry X machines for very experienced riders who especially likely to ride through fresh snow and explore hidden swamps and forests. Suspensions are calibrated for aggressive, fast riding, and deep track lugs and new Pilot DS 2 skis provide excellent flotation and control in deep snow. Off-trail ergonomics are enhanced with a center grab strap on top of tall handlebars.".

The manufacturers build products that they believe will sell. They must believe that the public wants more off-trail capability. Is that true?

Another thing to consider is what an 800cc, 160+hp, sled with a 1.75" track lug can do to a freshly groomed trail. Yes, it's still the operator that decides the throttle pressure, but these sleds sure do make it easy to tear things up.

Just seems odd to me; the clubs responded to public demand for smoother, wider, trails, and now there's increased interest in off-trail sleds.

How do you think these crossover sleds are being used?

If you ask me, a freshly groomed trail, a short track sled with a throttle happy rider does way more damage then a long-er track sled with a semi throttle happy rider. Speaking for myself, my 136 crossfire with a 1.25" lug takes significantly more throttle to spin the track then my 121 zr does. The main reason I really like having the little bit of extra track is when we get a fresh foot of snow, living right on the trail I often get out before the groomers do and its nice to be able to break trail a little easier.

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X2 ( don't i know that orange sled ??) Being a groomer operator I believe its the operator more than the sled or sled style. I see guys on short tracks and long tracks both rip up a trail I've just made perfect, along with both styles that creep by and keep it real.


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If you ask me, a freshly groomed trail, a short track sled with a throttle happy rider does way more damage then a long-er track sled with a semi throttle happy rider. Speaking for myself, my 136 crossfire with a 1.25" lug takes significantly more throttle to spin the track then my 121 zr does. The main reason I really like having the little bit of extra track is when we get a fresh foot of snow, living right on the trail I often get out before the groomers do and its nice to be able to break trail a little easier.

I agree that the operator is the biggest factor. Sounds like you ride trails and you sled has a "trail" track that's a little longer than the standard.120"-121". The 136" track should spiin less than a 121" with all else being equal. . There's a new generation of crossover sleds with more aggressive tracks that previously were considered only suitable for off-trail. Ski Doo has them, and Cat is offering the XF crossover line with up to a 141"x 2.25" track. Yamaha has the FX Nytro XTX with a 144""x 1.75". All these sleds can make the big power needed to spin those tracks. There were a couple of them at BRVSC a couple weeks ago, and you could follow their path by using the mounds of snow they left.

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I too have seen a significant increase in the emphasis of "off trail sleds" by the major manufacturers and it seems like a ton of people are buying these sleds which in my opinion only contribute to this issue. I am a 99% on trail rider because I simply prefer that side of the sport. I can see how off trail riding could be fun in the mountains but to me where we are in the Northeast I don't get it as much. I don't see the appeal in digging my sled out from 4 feet of snow in the flats of the woods or playing russian roulette with hidden rocks and stumps.



I understand there is a segment that does see the fun in that but there are very few locations in the North East where riding like this does not equal going on private property. This segment also tends to be the younger crowd and I hate to say it but most (not all) do not consider the consequences of their actions because it gets in the way of their thrill. I am sure there are riders who consider the consequences and when they ride off trail they do so responsibly but I do not beleive this is the majority.



I can't tell you how many sled marks I have seen this year in areas that are clearly marked with no snowmobile signs. Now with all that said I am considering going to a 137" Renegade next year but only because I live right on a local trail that is not groomed like the larger clubs and often I am the first one out breaking trail. With my 600 carb 121 I am usually WOT just to get through 12" of new powder and I would like something a little longer to aid in that.



A few weeks ago I took a day off during that big storm and broke trail all day in fresh powder. To me THAT is FUN, ride legally on the trails in the deep snow before the groomers get to it. This way I am getting the fun in riding the powder without risking the loss of trails people work so hard to keep.


Edited by camosled

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This past week or two on the Snowmobilers of New England (Facebook) there are several videos of off trail riding through the woods and they just keep coming. This trend will close trails for good. Huge fines and enforcement on this instead of speed on straightaways would go a long way to helping our cause!


Edited by The Toolman

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This past week or two on the Snowmobilers of New England (Facebook) there are several videos of off trail riding through the woods and they just keep coming. This trend will close trails for good. Huge fines and enforcement on this instead of speed on straightaways would go a long way to helping our cause!

Interesting. Both bank robbery an riding off-trail without written permission are against the rules; do you suppose that bank robbers will now supply YouTube videos of them robbing the bank?

I suspect that some now believe that designated trails are a suggestion, not a mandate. Are there any landowners in NH, including the state or federal government, that has given blanket permission to motorized vehicles to operate everywhere on their property? Even Jericho Park?

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From there facebook Today 3/28/2014



Baker River Valley Snowmobile Club




8 hrs ·






here we go again. Our trails are marked and by all accounts well groomed. While out tonight we found fresh tracks through the airport behind King's mill that weren't there just 3 hours earlier. We understand that everyone is out to have a good time, and we are glad that people are enjoying our trails. But it is illegal to ride on an airport-PERIOD. There are no snowmobile & stay on trail signs all along the runway. Come on guys-this is corridor 5 and will be a tough reroute if we lose it. Please stay on the trail!


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Go on HCS they are posting looking for others to join them in their "boondocking" adventures that inevitably give us more work (like we need it) in relocating trails. This really needs to stop. Fine them and mandate they do dozens of hours of trail work to make up for their selfish ways! I'm sure People on here know who they are. Same types who think loud cans are fine.

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Go on HCS they are posting looking for others to join them in their "boondocking" adventures that inevitably give us more work (like we need it) in relocating trails. This really needs to stop. Fine them and mandate they do dozens of hours of trail work to make up for their selfish ways! I'm sure People on here know who they are. Same types who think loud cans are fine.

Criminal trespass with an OHRV is generally viewed as a violation, which has a maximum penalty of $1,000. A second offense of trespass at an airport would be considered as a misdemeanor, which carries higher penalties. Still, a $1000 fine is not a small thing. I do wonder what the average fine might be for trespass with an OHRV.

TITLE LXII CRIMINAL CODE

CHAPTER 635

UNAUTHORIZED ENTRIES

Section 635:2

635:2 Criminal Trespass. –

I. A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place.

II. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a class B felony for any subsequent offense if the person knowingly or recklessly causes damage in excess of $1,500 to the value of the property of another.

III. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor if:

(a) The trespass takes place in an occupied structure as defined in RSA 635:1, III; or

(B) The person knowingly enters or remains:

(1) In any secured premises;

(2) In any place in defiance of an order to leave or not to enter which was personally communicated to him by the owner or other authorized person; or

(3) In any place in defiance of any court order restraining him from entering such place so long as he has been properly notified of such order.

IV. All other criminal trespass is a violation.

V. In this section, "secured premises'' means any place which is posted in a manner prescribed by law or in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, or which is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders.

VI. In this section, "property,'' "property of another,'' and "value'' shall be as defined in RSA 637:2, I, IV, and V, respectively.

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Go on HCS they are posting looking for others to join them in their "boondocking" adventures that inevitably give us more work (like we need it) in relocating trails. This really needs to stop. Fine them and mandate they do dozens of hours of trail work to make up for their selfish ways! I'm sure People on here know who they are. Same types who think loud cans are fine.

Funny you say that, I saw one of those facebook posts from a guy in his late teens, early 20's asking for XP plastics and the loudest can he can get. His profile pic was him on his long track ripping up the woods. Someone mentioned that loud pipes close trails and he responded with explatives..etc

I am seeing more and more of these type

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I am seeing more and more of these type

Well, those are the Mass types that ride in the south. Oops...you are from Mass. Sorry buddy ;-)

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Well, those are the Mass types that ride in the south. Oops...you are from Mass. Sorry buddy ;-)

Hey! I resemble that!!!

The Mass**** part that is...

Be nice to Camosled (we gotta stick together around here).

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LOL, NHSledin, Please know I know your not one of the dopes' your one of the responsible ones

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