Freedom Rider

Why do you even respond as you are not a snowmobiler? You are always trying to tell people what the person making the post was thinking. What Dave is proposing is to increase funding for GIA to help in the time it will take it to even get to legislature. The NHSA is pushing for 100% increase in registration and then another $30.00 increase shortly thereafter. When you look at the money that finally trickles down from those proposed numbers to GIA it doesn't help very much.The overhead of the Agencies will eat most of it up. Easiest way to keep snowmobile clubs healthy and riders from leaving state is to just get rid of discount and have everybody just pay the $30.00 more per sled and it goes to GIA and not the Agencies overhead. I ask you this. What pays it's way more evenly? One sled that pays the $96.00 or 4 sleds taking $30.00 discount per sled and only paying $20.00 (average) and $10.00 for discount voucher? 4 x $96.00 =$384.00 -$120.00=$264.00+$20.00 (club fee)+$10.00 Discount voucher=$294.00 /4 sleds = $73.50 per sled. 4 sleds do 4 times as much damage as one sled. But the club/GIA only sees $73.50 per sled vs. teh $96.00 for the one. The one sled pays a lot more for its use on the trail and into the program than the failed club discount program. It doesnt get anymore people to help out. It only allows NHSA to make $10.00 per voucher. And none of that money ever sees the club or trails. The loss of trails he is referring to is that of areas where the clubs are closing the doors because of lack of funding and volunteers.NHSA clubs have gone from 114 to 106 in just a couple of years and still more closing soon.

Be the first time they gave out anything. "VD"? (Very Disgusted)?

If everyone wants a very simple registration process just go register in Maine. Cheaper than in NH., Can be done 100% online, Can be done at town halls in Maine, Can be done at dealers, Can be done at clubs, Can be done at Kittery Trading Post, Can be done for a couple of days, and Can be done for a week. Come on New Hampshire take your head out of your ass and fix it or you will be losing alot of Non Residents as well as Residents.

Nice post Mr. Copeland. It is along same lines as my post regarding applying $30.00 cost by not using discount scheme except a more permanent resolution. I for one would rather see $30.00 increase to go to GIA only. I would rather pay $30.00 increase than to pay $150.00/$180.00 registration cost with most of it going to subsidize state agencies instead of trails program. The higher proposed registration along with proposed cuts to GIA funding any support for grooming equipment will just gut the clubs ability to have fairly modern grooming equipment. The grooming rate will increase, supposedly. If it is a low snow year or economy tanks like in 2008 or gas keeps going up people will be forced to invest their money more wisely. Clubs will not be able to come up with 100% self purchasing of grooming equipment.I highly doubt many clubs will be able to get financing on a $250.00+ new groomer. As it is now with RTP and GIA Grant funding available the Bank knows the State is not going to let a note go unpaid because of their vested interest in it along with most notes being only in $50,000 or less cost range. Try getting a loan for $250,000 with income of less than say $5,000.00 from membership (if you are a large club) and if it snows and you use all of your grooming hours maybe $15,000.00 (large lakes region clubs). Of course upkeep, insurance, and fuel do reduce the groomer income significantly. I would think by at least half. The club would be left with a monthly payment n the area of about $2,826.00 per month minimum year round.This would be on $200,000.00 after club trades or puts down $50,000.00 down payment. Sorry for long reply. Just think people need to understand where the sport is hurting from lack of funding. 1)people leaving do to rising costs 2) clubs losing members money and more importantly volunteers 3) unobtainable grooming equipment as prices are going nuts. 4) clubs depending on online membership system through a third party. The new member has no contact with club. No welcome or a no hand shake at a meeting. No joining at an event. No referral by a dealer or registration dealer. It is a total sterile business transaction. Very easy to say I am buying the cheapest membership from wherever. It is easier for new member not to donate anything when they are not looking a human in the eyes.

I was stating the current option of not using discount. No mention was made of changing legislation to remove discount in my post. No need for legislation to use that option.I stated my opinion on using the options that are on the table and what is being worked on by NHSA Committee for future increase in Registration. The easiest way to resolve funding shortages without driving people away or out of the sport, the quickest, is to not take discount now. The $30.00 bump in funding goes directly to GIA program immediately. I personally will still join my local club to support their trails program. Paying in this manor means F&G receives no increase in funding from this $30.00. Why do you think you know what I was saying better than me? I used the RSA, F&G info from their website, and overview presented to Grafton County Clubs, by Terry Callum, at their County Meeting. The Grafton County Director emailed the clubs with all relevant info for those unable to attend. Maybe you should stick with ATV issues, as you have said you do not snowmobile and you do not belong to snowmobile club in the past. Don't analyze my comments or posts and try to put spin on it for your agenda.

http://www.eregulations.com/newhampshire/ohrv/registration-information/ This is where registration numbers I got came from. It is from NH F&G website link to NH F&G Digest. It does conflict with actual RSA. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XVIII/215-C/215-C-39.htm Fish and Game webstie says resident registration fee is $66.00 for a club member. The RSA says it is $60.00 for resident club member. The note on RSA says last updated effective July, 2017 Wonder where the additional $6.00 fee came from?

New suggested registration rate proposed by NHSA Committee. $120.00 per sled for residents after discount This means $32.81 going to F&G This means $1.00 goes to F&G Search and Rescue This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee $34.18 is amount of additional funds to be used by Trails Bureau for trail grooming and summer maintenance. This equals a total $81.18 per new registration cost going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails. No more grooming equipment or groomer maintenance (Refurbs) Clubs will get an increase in grooming hours actually groomed. Low snow means no money for club to pay cost of owning groomer Cost increase per registration to resident $54.00 per sled if joining club and buying discount from NHSA at an average cost of $20.00 for club and $10.00 NHSA to buy discount. Cost for discount by sled using average price club membership 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $150.00 2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $135.00 3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $130.00 4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $127.50 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Current registration rate $66.00 for resident with discount This equals $47.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails This equals $13.00 going to F&G This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue. This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $96.00 2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $81.00 3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $76.00 4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $73.50 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00 This equals $77.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails This equals $13.00 going to F&G This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue. This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Percentage of cost of registration going to GIA and Trails Program New proposed Registration 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register. $81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $135.00 per sled to register. $81.18 Trails Program= 60.13 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $130.00 per sled to register. $81.18 Trails Program=62.44 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $127.50 per sled to register. $81.18 Trails Program=63.67 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Current registration with discount 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register. $47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $81.00 per sled to register. $47.00 Trails Program= 58.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $76.00 per sled to register. $47.00 Trails Program=61.84 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program 4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $73.50 per sled to register. $47.00 Trails Program=63.94 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Current registration no discount Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00 $77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program We all know more funding is needed for the trails program. How do you do that without raising registration cost to the point of pushing people to other states, out of the sport, or just not registering and run illegally. To me, based on above info, the most return for a resident registering a sled as far as investing in Trails is as follows: Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00 $77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program Current registration with discount 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register. $47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program New proposed Registration 1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register. $81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program I think the discounted registration program has run its course. Time to remove it from the RSA. Clubs that do a good job on it’s trails and membership programs will still get people to join. Clubs that don’t will have problems. I think paying $96.00 per sled for resident resulting in $77.00 into GIA and trails program @ 80.02 % return into program is much better than $150.00 per sled with discount for resident resulting in $81.18 into GIA and trails program @ 54.12 % return into GIA and Trails Program. As residents what do you think? It is a $54.00 resident registration increase per sled. No more groomer equipment support from GIA for clubs.

I do not doubt that people will just ride unregistered. Watch what happens when system goes down on a Friday. People wont spend the extra $30.00 they will just ride. For a non resident still cheaper to run risk. Chances of seeing a CO out on trails is between slim and none. Only place you will see them is on a straightaway in Pittsburg.Or maybe 4-6 of them sitting in restaurant next to Youngs eating. Almost non existent law enforcement for snowmobiling in NH. They do show up when reporters are there though. I did get pulled over 2 years ago driving down road with my work trailer in NH. Excuse was plate mounted in wrong place. It was mounted to factory bracket welded to location set in factory, lit up by plate light. My question to him was eye exam a requirement and since when are F&G doing DOT's job for commercial vehicle? Was hunting for construction jobs now covered under hunting and fishing? F#*king joke.

Fish and Game Response.pdf

What comes next? Fat Lady Singing for clubs.

This subject is just the first FU to the snowmobilers in New Hampshire. It is even a bigger FU to the clubs. The next is on its way.The following will be the start of the end of the clubs in NH. It will be the beginning of NHSA promoting snowmobilers going to Maine and Vermont.How do you think the support will be of $150.00 registrations for first step followed by $180.00 per sled registration thereafter? Clubs having to pay 100 % for all groomers, refurbs, and repairs? This what the braintrust in the blackhole better known as Tilton is working on. The following was presented at a County meeting this spring. See below:

MAINE the vacation state.

Well Rob that is good to hear that they did it right. As for the meeting I made my choice to not drive the 45 minutes in the freezing rain that we had south of you. I guess if I lived 5 minutes away like you I would have gone to. I am glad to hear that I was wrong in my statement and can say I have the balls to admit I was wrong. Too bad your Board can't say the same. Such as accusations being made at your monthly Board meeting. Making statements that have no facts, correct Russ Neil? Making accusations that about people who you shared content with via PM, when as a sitting Board member you should not have been talking out of school.

So much for disclosure to the buying public. My understanding of the bylaws says that this change is a dues/membership change and therefor should have been voted on by the delegates at the Annual Meeting. The vote was taken at a Executive session meeting as well. The minutes of that meeting should be open to the public as a vote was taken and there needs to be a public record of that. I guess rules are only for HONEST people. Enough said to draw a conclusion as to what people fit that and those who don't. Don't count on it though. BlackHole of Tilton. Where money goes in and no information comes out.Al Capone would have fit in nicely.