WINNOCTURN

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  1. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Skip in Scrub Oak Scramblers Winter Carnival 2019   
    Great time at the Scrub Oak Scramblers winter carnival yesterday at the old air strip in Freedom. These are a few photos from the drone portfolio I took.....










  2. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to RK-SXViper in NHSA Sno Traveler promoting ME sledding   
    Dave I respectfully disagree. Grooming $ is NOT what is killing clubs, lack of volunteers and members are what is killing clubs off. The volunteer mindset seems to be a thing of the past and its getting harder and harder to get volunteers to do the tasks needed to keep the trails and clubs open. If your looking to get enough $ into GIA to pay for all the currently volunteered services than you'd need to triple if not quadruple the registration cost. After talking to a few registration agents the number of people registering as non club members this year will give GIA a decent boost, but at the cost of a few more clubs. At what point does it all collapse onto itself? I think we're starting down a long and bumpy road!
  3. Haha
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Freedom Rider in United Snowmobile Alliance   
    You get serviced ok. Dry and hard, no lube either.
    New group will probably be another way for you to have to buy a voucher to join a club and buy another voucher to register your sled.
    Here is a video of the County Directors at last NHSA Board meeting when someone had a good idea to help the sport or their respective clubs. Does this look familiar to you guys Rob or Dirt Dummy?
    https://www.facebook.com/ActiveHire.co.uk/videos/1813861348703779/
     
  4. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Old Thumper in United Snowmobile Alliance   
    "dedicated to serving our members"
    That doesn't sound like anything that NHSA would be interested in …

  5. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Saluda in NHSA having legal issues again.   
    Sent them an E mail requesting info on the subject. Nothing yet.
  6. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to jhwentworth in New Sno-Traveler format   
    All the trees, and most of the people,  involved with printing this issue were volunteers.
  7. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Skip in VD NUMBERS IN BLOCKS from NHSA to Club?   
    Yikes...the NHSA is giving out blocks of “VD”? 
    Wonder if my med insurance still covers penicillin shots???!!!
  8. Thanks
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Freedom Rider in Registration increase being proposed   
    New suggested registration rate proposed by NHSA Committee. $120.00 per sled for residents after discount


     
    This means $32.81 going to F&G

    This means $1.00 goes to F&G Search and Rescue

    This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

    $34.18 is amount of additional funds to be used by Trails Bureau for trail grooming and summer maintenance.

    This equals a total $81.18 per new registration cost going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails. No more grooming equipment or groomer maintenance (Refurbs) Clubs will get an increase in grooming hours actually groomed. Low snow means no money for club to pay cost of owning groomer

    Cost increase per registration to resident $54.00 per sled if joining club and buying discount from NHSA at an average cost of $20.00 for club and $10.00 NHSA to buy discount.

    Cost for discount by sled using average price club membership

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $150.00

    2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $135.00

    3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $130.00

    4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $127.50

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Current registration rate $66.00 for resident with discount

    This equals $47.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails

    This equals $13.00 going to F&G

    This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue.

    This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $96.00

    2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $81.00

    3 sleds- $10.00 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $76.00

    4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount to register sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee is $73.50

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


     
    Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

    This equals $77.00 going to GIA and Trails Bureau for trails

    This equals $13.00 going to F&G

    This means $1.00 goes to Search and Rescue.

    This means $5.00 agent fee and transaction fee

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Percentage of cost of registration going to GIA and Trails Program


     
    New proposed Registration

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register.

    $81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $135.00 per sled to register.

    $81.18 Trails Program= 60.13 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $130.00 per sled to register.

    $81.18 Trails Program=62.44 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $127.50 per sled to register.

    $81.18 Trails Program=63.67 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Current registration with discount

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register.

    $47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    2 sleds- $15.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $81.00 per sled to register.

    $47.00 Trails Program= 58.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    3 sleds- $10. actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $76.00 per sled to register.

    $47.00 Trails Program=61.84 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    4 sleds- $7.50 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $73.50 per sled to register.

    $47.00 Trails Program=63.94 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Current registration no discount

    Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

    $77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    We all know more funding is needed for the trails program. How do you do that without raising registration cost to the point of pushing people to other states, out of the sport, or just not registering and run illegally.

    To me, based on above info, the most return for a resident registering a sled as far as investing in Trails is as follows:

    Current registration cost for resident without discount being bought $96.00

    $77.00 Trails Program=80.02 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    Current registration with discount

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $96.00 per sled to register.

    $47.00 Trails Program= 48.95 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    New proposed Registration

    1 sled- $30.00 actual cost to buy discount per sled inc. club membership and NHSA fee. Total is $150.00 per sled to register.

    $81.18 Trails Program= 54.12 % of cost goes to GIA and trails program

    I think the discounted registration program has run its course. Time to remove it from the RSA. Clubs that do a good job on it’s trails and membership programs will still get people to join.

    Clubs that don’t will have problems.

    I think paying $96.00 per sled for resident resulting in $77.00 into GIA and trails program @ 80.02 % return into program is much better than $150.00 per sled with discount for resident resulting in $81.18 into GIA and trails program @ 54.12 % return into GIA and Trails Program.

    As residents what do you think? It is a $54.00 resident registration increase per sled.
    No more groomer equipment support from GIA for clubs.

  9. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to dbcopeland in MAKE SNOWMOBILING GREAT AGAIN   
    REGISTER RIGHT to keep it FLAT and WHITE.
    1 Dump the discount, put the $30 where it will do the most to keep it FLAT and WHITE, the Trails Bureau (Grant in Aid). Remember the $30 is now $18 because you have to throw away $12 to get $30 and by registering this way it should put off the proposed registration increase to $150 to $180 per sled.
    2 Join a Club to keep it FLAT and WHITE, where you live, ride, or both and yes the money helps but the money and your involvement makes a difference, remember most trails are maintained and groomed by club volunteers.
    3 Be nice, say please and thank you, treat people like you would like or expect to be treated.
    4 Stay away from associations that are only concerned with there bottom line
    5 Remember not everyone rides the same sled as you or has the same riding style. We are all snowmobilers and if we work together, support each other, respect landowners and law enforcement we can MAKE SNOWMOBILING GREAT AGAIN.
    THANKS Dave Copeland                
     
     
  10. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Skip in How F&G really feels about NH Clubs and the "SCHEME" aka Registration Discount   
    I’m going to start a go-fund me page so we can cover the cost of attaching a third arm to Dave. That way he can pat himself on the back while still eating, swimming, snowmobiling or signing autographs at “Hero’s” bridge!
  11. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Freedom Rider in New Hampshire Fish and Game Adminastrative Rules   
    This subject is just the first FU to the snowmobilers in New Hampshire.
    It is even a bigger FU to the clubs.
     
    The next is on its way.The following will be the start of the end of the clubs in NH. It will be the beginning of NHSA promoting snowmobilers going to Maine and Vermont.How do you think the support will be of $150.00 registrations for first step followed by $180.00 per sled registration thereafter? Clubs having to pay 100 % for all groomers, refurbs, and repairs?
    This what the braintrust in the blackhole better known as Tilton is working on. The following was presented at a County meeting this spring.
    See below:
     

     
  12. Confused
  13. Sad
    WINNOCTURN got a reaction from smthopr8r in New Hampshire Fish and Game Adminastrative Rules   
    MSC stands to possibly loose up to $18,000 next Season if we can not continue our ONLINE Membership and our DEALER Memberships. These 2 avenues of Memberships made up for 61% of our Membership this year.WE need "VD Numbers" to operate these Systems.
    I will be contacting Beth this week to open up a Discussion we had on NHSA working with Clubs by possibly granting "Blocks of VD Numbers to keep Clubs functioning.
    NHSA has NO WAY of handling the Dollar Amount of DONATIONS, Sales of MAPS and Decals that are generated at the time someone makes out an Application to join our Club.
    Example of High dollar donations, $300.00 or even $500.00 are not uncommon.
    IT's what you call ONE STOP SHOPPING.
    I am all for Changing the RSA and eliminating the Discount.
    With out the Discount Clubs could possibly LOWER their "DUE" by the $10.00 built-in to cover the NHSA. You would only Need to join THE CLUB. 
    What's been TRASHED here is the simple language of "YOU MUST BE A "MEMBER OF A CLUB" that is a Member of NHSA to qualify for the Discoun
    It's either sit in my "Recliner" all Day or be obsessed with this 24 hours a days! It's one of the advantages of being RE-TIRED.
     
                                                                                                           
     

     
    Number of People who viewed this post form WINNI.COM since 11:40 AM (2:21pm) VS maybe 3 on SLEDNH!  WINNI 4:43 72 (+23) as of 7-22 166 

    IT"S TIME TO WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!
    Anyone remember when SLEDNH played a Key role in getting the Castle Trails Reopened?  
     
    Link to SNOWMOBILE FORUM on winnipesaukee.com
    https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22
     
     
     
  14. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to RK-SXViper in New Hampshire Fish and Game Adminastrative Rules   
    I couldn't agree more with you and have also been wrestling with how a lot of clubs will deal with this issue. A lot of people have been saying for years that the discount program just does not work anymore and is more trouble than its worth, well I'm starting to agree with them. I see more people at their local dealer saying "to heck with it" and registering as non club members because the extra hastle just isn't worth it. This is a double edged sword because clubs will suffer but GIA will receive some extra funds that are much needed. I can already hear people saying that only the strong clubs will survive, well I hope those strong clubs are willing and able to take over the trails for the small clubs that go under.
    I'm personally finding it hard to advocate for a group that seems more worried and focused on their bottom line than the well being of the clubs that make this sport happen. Maybe its time for clubs to push harder for donations and ask their members to register as non club members which will give more money to GIA and less to the other group. If we don't find a way to put more into GIA then a significant registration increase will be inevitable. I'm sure we'll have a lot to discuss at upcoming club meetings.
  15. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to smthopr8r in New Hampshire Fish and Game Adminastrative Rules   
    Apparently its over, the clubs just got a giant f you from NHSA and NHF&G. Our notification  came from the Tilton brass on Thursday that only the NHSA voucher will be accepted as proof of membership for the registration discount. There goes 50% or more of our satellite sales member source . We do not want to buy devices to put at all the locations and can't expect the agents to deal with that part of it. This is the beginning of the end for many clubs and sadly it seems that our association is single minded in there quest for total control of all the clubs, and anything related to rules and registration. I was scolded once before for making negative comments about the association and told that there is a proper chain to address the issues. Well see how that works, many people rallied against this rule and showed the impact on the clubs, trying to stop the impending freight train of power hungry people. The system does not work. I am disappointed, and having a tough time staying positive about the NHSA, and the NHF&G. Thank you to all who lobbied hard to stop this ruling, and most importantly good luck to all the clubs in dealing with this obstacle.
  16. Like
    WINNOCTURN reacted to jhwentworth in North country riding back in the day   
    I did a Google search and ended up here. 
    I'd guess that most people that visit this site have already seen this page, and the "Snow Revolution" video link. That video will bring back memories for those that rode sleds 40 years ago, and make today's vintage riders feel right at home. North country riding was a very different experience 40 years ago, and more like the experience that today's off-trail riders are looking for. The problem was the sleds were nothing like today's mountain sleds, and breaking trails after a snowfall was common. A great sport for those people who think getting stuck and unstuck is the best part.
  17. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to pekabu in Special Meeting   
    One other item, fire the lawyer.   The whole idea of suing the AG's office was asinine.
  18. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to smthopr8r in Special Meeting   
    I am disappointed with the outcome of this meeting. As always the vote passes, the good old boys and all there 66 sheep are happy. The rest of us are supposed to be happy with the process and outcome once again. So sad. 
  19. Thanks
    WINNOCTURN reacted to jhwentworth in Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?   
    Let's imagine an NHSA affiliated club with 100 total members. The NHSA doesn't require that the members also be NHSA members. Let's imagine that 90 of the 100 members are not NHSA members. Because these 90 people are members of an NHSA affiliated club they qualify for the discount, but will need proof of membership. In the past the club could provide a document stating their membership that was accepted by F&G, but under a proposed change that would no longer be true. The F&G wants to MANDATE that the NHSA must provide the proof of membership, and the NHSA wants to charge the club $10 per transaction to provide that proof and maintain a database of member information.
    Do you believe that the NHSA can, or should, deny a club affiliation because 100% of the members are not NHSA members?
    The proposed By-Laws state in Article IV-Membership: "Individual memberships will be a benefit for those who are members in good standing as defined in the NHSA Rules of Business of an affiliated club. Members of affiliated clubs are not required to accept this benefit except as required by club by-laws."
    From the proposed Rules of Business for member clubs under Membership: "Good Standing- Annual dues are paid; its per membership dues are paid per club agreement"
    (does this mean that a club pays dues for each NHSA member when they join, but doesn't have to pay the $10 unless the non-NHRA member wants to get a registration discount? Joining a club is not always synonymous with registering a sled or requesting a discount) 
    This goes back to the meaning of a "club membership transaction". The decision-making here is on the part of the F&G who proposed the rules change, and the legislature that will either approve or disapprove that proposal.
  20. Thanks
    WINNOCTURN reacted to jhwentworth in Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?   
    In the proposed "Rules of Business" under Dues, it states "Annual dues shall be $30. In addition, member clubs shall be assessed $10 per club membership transaction."
    What is the meaning of "club membership transaction"? Is it all members of a club? Is it all club members that belong to the NHSA? Can I be a member of a club and not have any connection to the NHSA that would require a transaction with them? Is this $10 connected to a discounted registration? When NHSA allocates delegates do NHSA members and non-NHSA members both count? The proposed BY-Laws state that "Delegates from the member clubs of the NHSA allowed to vote must have been a club member registered in the NHSA database on or before March 1'st of that year." So, are clubs members who are not members of the NHSA  registered in the NHSA database? (does being in the database imply NHSA membership?) If I'm not an NHSA member, will my club membership count towards the delegate allocation?
    There are rules and by-laws, and there are interpretations of rules and by-laws, and sometimes the interpretation can make all the difference.
  21. Like
    WINNOCTURN got a reaction from RK-SXViper in Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?   
    Dave,
    The problem is not a 12 Digit Number.
    It is how CLUBS generate Memberships! What we got out of attending the 2 Informational Hearings that F&G held is the NHSA has FULL Control of disseminating and setting the cost of the "VD" Numbers (with out ANY over-site). As it stands now NHSA is the only source that F&G will accept to Register a Sled irregardless of any Lower Priced Registration Cost.
    $30.00 Discount? There is no dollar amount stated in the RSA. It appears to be the difference between the Price set by F&G between a Member of a Club and a NON-Member of a Club. It seam it always ends up at a $30.00 difference? 
     
    Some people are/were under the impression that EVERYONE was a member of NHSA. Not really.
    This move by  F&G has totally left the "MEMBER of a CLUB that is a MEMBER of NHSA" with no way to get the lower cost of Registering a Snowmobile as the RSA state he has the RIGHT to do.
    YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF A CLUB THAT IS A MEMBER OF NHSA. Not a Member of NHSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Does the meaning of the RSA no longer apply?
    Case in point only 90 out of 500 Member of a Club when given the option to join or not joined NHSA?
     
     
     
  22. Thanks
    WINNOCTURN reacted to Bearcat250 in Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?   
    Several years ago I testified at a JLCAR hearing. NH Div of W&M were requesting rule changes which put a financial burden on my employer. I had the proper documents to back my position and the rule changes were denied. I was the only one testifying against the rule changes. The committee will listen to you and make a fair decision. From what I heard at my last club meeting I think there's a good chance these rule changes will not be accepted if contested at JLCAR. Just my opinion. 
  23. Thanks
    WINNOCTURN reacted to RK-SXViper in Special Meeting   
    George look in the annual report i think its listed somewhere in there
  24. Like
    WINNOCTURN got a reaction from pekabu in Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18 Question of Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?   
    Fish & Game Hearing 4/4/18
    Question of NHSA SELLING "VD" NUMBERS for $12.00 each!
    I consider what F&G and NHSA constitutes a Restraint of Trade.
    What is Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?
    Restraint of trade is an economic injury that involves interfering with another person’s ability to do business freely.  Restraint of trade is part of antitrust law, but the topic covers a wide range of activities, including:
    tortious interference with a contract or business agreement that negatively affects someone else’s ability to do business freely.
     
    forcing or coercing someone to quit doing business or to change their business so as not to compete in the market; agreeing to fix prices to drive other competitors out of business; creating a monopoly; using noncompete clauses or other contract provisions to keep someone out of business; tortious interference with a contract or business agreement that negatively affects someone else’s ability to do business freely.   In short, a “restraint of trade” is any activity that hinders someone else from doing business in the way that he would normally do it if there were no restraints.  While federal, state, and local governments can pass laws and regulations that create obstacles for certain kinds of businesses, it is generally considered improper for individuals to restrain one another’s trade in certain ways.  Someone who loses business or suffers another injury may have a tort case against another individual whose trade-restraining behavior injured him.
     
    Creating a Monopoly
    The establishment, maintenance or use of monopoly power, or any attempt to establish, maintain or use monopoly power over trade or commerce for the purpose of affecting competition or controlling, fixing or maintaining prices is unlawful.
     
    Question to Fish and Game/NHSA
    Restraint of Trade and Creating a Monopoly?
    Going forth will we be able to conduct Business as we have in the past?
    1: Fixing a price for an Validation Number $12.00
    Cost of Number $10.00 Processing FEE $2.00
    It was always FREE as part of a Membership in a Club by way of a Club Membership Card or Membership Certificate.
    Restraint of Trade:
    Our Club has 3 sources of generating Memberships.
    1: Annual Mail Out to all members of the past Season.
    2: Sales Agents. We have 3 local Agents that Sell our Membership. We provide them with our Club Applications. The Application has one of our Membership Cards attached. The application is coded showing who the Agent is, i.e. DaSilva DSL, EM Heath EMH and Skelly’s Market SKL. The Application has the corresponding Membership Card ID Number printed on it. We dedicate a specific series of Card Numbers to each Agent.
    We started in 2015 after NHSA STOPED sending NHSA Membership Cards to its Member Clubs.
    We designed our own Membership Card and had 1500 printed and ready to go for the 2016 Season. You knew you were a Member of the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club!
    3: In 2017 we added an Online Membership Page. You now can Join the Club, Printout a Membership Certificate, order Club Maps and Decals. Pay by Credit Card or PayPal.
    Our Membership Cards and Certificates are accepted a PROOF of MEMBERSHIP by any of the numerous Registration Agents in the Area.
    With what I have Stated I believe we will no longer be able generate Membership in our Club as we have in the Past.
    Whatever happed end to YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF A CLUB THAT IS A MEMBER (in good standing) of NHSA to be eligible for the $30.00 Registration Discount?
    Every CLUB is in the BUSINESS of SELLING Membership! Without Members there is no Club!
    George Higgins
    Membership Chairman
    Moultonboro Snowmobile Club.
    (Email: winnocturn1@gmail.com)
    (See page 2 for description of Restraint of Trade)
     
    Fish & Game  HQ Concord 6:30 pm 4/4/18 (tonight!) 
     
  25. Sad
    WINNOCTURN reacted to ljgomes in NHSA bylaws changes   
    I agree completely.  Having been on the board of NHSA and NHOHVA, I have to say the NHOHVA is much more caring about the needs of the clubs.  After what happened with the Attorney General investigation, I would have thought they would change their ways.  Instead they are trying to get around the AG rulings.  Its amazing to me  but proves the old adage:  "It's all about the money".